Work on energized equipment without PPE

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Would it go like this?

1. Plan job
2. Put on PPE (Level must be per arc energy)
3. Open main
4. LOTO
5. Remove cover
6. Test
7. Rubber blanket main line side
8. Okay to remove PPE
9. Work
10. Put on PPE
11. Remove blanket
12. Install cover
13. Remove LOTO
14. Close main


To and from LOTO each involve many steps ?
 
Would it go like this then?

1. Plan job
2. Put on PPE (Level must be per arc energy)
3. Open main
4. LOTO
5. Remove cover
6. Test
7.
8.
9. Work
10.
11.
12. Install cover
13. Remove LOTO
14. Close main
 
kspifldorf said:
I do it on a daily basis. Seen a fireball almost everyday since ive started this profession. Thats not to say im wreckless, You have to be very cautious in the particular industry im in, but everybody has got to eat. LOTO when you can but 90% of my work is LIVE. Good Luck and GOD Bless KEG
Click to expand...
I really don't know where to start in response to your statement.
Since I don't know you or the situations your describing I will keep my judgment's to myself.

I would like to say, however, that usually when I have seen a "fireball" the job and/or facility that thought it was too expensive to shut down finds out how much more expensive it can be to work hot if things go wrong. They think they can't shut down for a day on a weekend then end up having to shut down for a week to have investigations, replace gear (gear ain't cheap either), train everyone and tell them how safe they are going to work from now on... etc.

I haven't preached about live work on this site before and I don't plan to now. I frankly just can't understand how you are seeing accidents at your site and they are treated as commonplace. And I don't understand how the cost of fixing blow-ups hasn't justified the cost of working safer to your employer.

I've worked in some of the most inherently dangerous places around and to me they are usually safer because everyone knows its a dangerous place and they build in safety procedures to try to manage the risk.

Again I don't want to preach to you or make judgements, but I find that comment at best confusing and at worst scary. Maybe you can elaborate, 'cause I'm just not understanding.
 
I didnt reply to this post to say that its OK to work while its live, but to trouble shoot equiptment its almost a must. These fireballs arent from my mistakes they happen from neglect of others. You can build panels and equiptment to the highest of standards, and these things still happen. Ive been doing it for 12 yrs now and have been fortunate to have not been seriously hurt. I completely agree with you Dave. Just venting about my part of the trade. Thanks for the concern. KEG
 
Wow - There must be all kinds of issues working live.

KEG - When you are are troubleshooting energized gear are you wearing PPE??
 
Natfuelbilll,
If the main is in the panel you are working in, you are still working on or near energized electrical equipment in violation of the OSHA requirements. In general the only live work that is permitted is troubleshooting and full PPE for the available incident energy is required.
Don
 
I`ve worked live circuits and services since the 70`s.Never gave it a second thought.When troubleshooting I usually want the circuit live.When dealing with a dead short I use an old trick I learned years ago.A pig tail lamp holder in line with the breaker/fuse.Helper stays at the panel and lets me know when the light goes out.I did 1000`s of service change outs in NYC and almost all were underground.An edison box live and did what was needed.To get the poco out would take an act of congress.Was what I did right ????? Probably not in oshas eyes, was I carefull???? Very...... Do I still work live ???
Yes i do.Just being honest.
 
Hardworkingstiff,

Nice analogy, we all have broke the limit, it's just a matter of by how much, and how often.

Parsing of words matter too on the issue. I don't consider a voltage check with a meter on anything under 600 volts "working live". Minor adjustments don't count either. So do I get a ticket at 62 MPH, or just a warning, trying to stay grounded here.

Edit has attached -

This may be of interest as to direction of the industry...in the next NEC.

It's from a ROP's report on 2008 CMP #1 ...

Proposal 1-82, Joe Tedesco
Code Section 110.16
Panel Action: Accept-in-Principle Vote: 9 – 2 – 1 (Against NEMA, EEI /
Abstain - Higher Education)
This proposal expands required marking for flash protection to include dwelling units other than one- and two-family dwelling occupancies. High rise apartment and condo buildings were the primary dwelling occupancies driving this acceptance. It is doubtful that a negative NEMA comment will sway the panel on this proposal, however it is suggested that a negative comment be submitted to maintain current NEMA policy toward de-energizing equipment before entry. Suggested negative comment:

NEMA continues to support the position that personnel safety can best be assured when equipment is de-energized before performing any work.
 
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I'll go along with the general tone of this thread and add the following: if we have these discussions and work a little bit safer, we're all ahead.

Heck, to be honest, I did work hot today.

Before I came here, I worked hot all the time - I'm not saying "frequently", I'm saying, every time the occasion rose to do a minor task, I would do it hot. It would have to be pretty involved before I'd shut something off.

Once I came here, I learned that it was not chicken to shut things off. It is simply smart. You have to think a bit differently to troubleshoot cold in some cases, but in many cases it can be done.

Now, I shut things off far more frequently, thanks to the discussions that have taken place. I try to get better about it every day, but I do slip every now and then, to be honest.
 
A practical workaround for me, at present, is the generous supply of meter seals that I beg off linemen each time we cross paths. They seem to understand my pickle, even if their bosses do not.
 
So what is needed is a an Electrical Safety Program (ESP) that incorporates all the 70E elements.

"If only I had..." These are a couple of words I will not be saying to myself.




Meter seals.... What are your stories about cutting a seal off?
 
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