working live on electrical systems

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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
kwired said:
But they actually can connect a live service drop, plug in a meter while live, etc. yet we hear all the preaching about how to work on anything live needs justification and there is not many conditions that justify it - it can always be turned off.
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Don't confuse apples with oranges.

For the most part the equipment utilities deal with is intended to be worked on live, while the equipment we deal with is not, even though it has been common practice to do so.

There are lots of overhead services connected while hot, but I am not aware of any utility making live direct burial terminations.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jim dungar said:
Don't confuse apples with oranges.

For the most part the equipment utilities deal with is intended to be worked on live, while the equipment we deal with is not, even though it has been common practice to do so.

There are lots of overhead services connected while hot, but I am not aware of any utility making live direct burial terminations.
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It is more like comparing apples to pears instead of oranges. There are some more similarities, yet some differences.
 
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geerhed

Member
Location
Your six.
Our company has forbidden working live, under any circumstances, code or no code. All circuits are checked as dead by two methods. Individual contractors must sign that they were advised of all safety requirements, and are supervised at all times. Violation of a safety rule can get you kicked offsite. Much of this comes from an adoption of ISO 18001 requirements. Yes, it takes time. Yes, there's documentation. But just remember,

1.) It's your face and hands in there,
2.) liability may not make sense, but it's here to stay,
2.) deepest pockets pay,
3.) lawyers win.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
geerhed said:
Our company has forbidden working live, under any circumstances, code or no code. All circuits are checked as dead by two methods. Individual contractors must sign that they were advised of all safety requirements, and are supervised at all times. Violation of a safety rule can get you kicked offsite. Much of this comes from an adoption of ISO 18001 requirements. Yes, it takes time. Yes, there's documentation. But just remember,

1.) It's your face and hands in there,
2.) liability may not make sense, but it's here to stay,
2.) deepest pockets pay,
3.) lawyers win.
Click to expand...

How do you perform certain troubleshooting tasks especially measuring voltage, current, or even IR scans on equipment that is deenergized?

How do you confirm something is dead before working on it? Are we not supposed to treat it as though it were live until it is confirmed dead?
 
zog

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
kwired said:
How do you perform certain troubleshooting tasks especially measuring voltage, current, or even IR scans on equipment that is deenergized?

How do you confirm something is dead before working on it? Are we not supposed to treat it as though it were live until it is confirmed dead?
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Valid points but none of those things are techniclaly considered live work per the 70E definition. I think that is what he means. All of your examples have different rules than actual energized "work"
 
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geerhed

Member
Location
Your six.
kwired said:
How do you perform certain troubleshooting tasks especially measuring voltage, current, or even IR scans on equipment that is deenergized?

How do you confirm something is dead before working on it? Are we not supposed to treat it as though it were live until it is confirmed dead?
Click to expand...

I think you may be assuming (incorrectly) I'm not completely puzzled by many of the requirements and their application. How do I verify the E-stop before I energize equipment? Press it and see if it goes, "click"???

Zog is correct however; that was my point.
 
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