- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Depending on the company policy on hot work, his action to "secure" the circuit could itself be a violation.
Would capping off live wires be considered securing a circuit.
- Thread starter James Lee
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
In a lot of areas HOT WORK means welding work, while LIVE WORK means energized electrical work.
Big difference when the safety team isn't consistent in their terminology, not to mention doesn't understand electrical slang.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I know many electrical safety people consider energized equipment as Hot Work. The problem is OSHA (based on my last OSHA10 training and many others may not.
When talking to lawyers, safety experts, and OSHA inspectors using easily mis-understood terminology can result in unexpected outcomes.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I am pretty sure NFPA70E refers to it as an energized electrical work permit.
As far as I know the only exception to the requirement to have such a permit is for troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement, and I don't see that capping off the wires is troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement.
As far as I know the only exception to the requirement to have such a permit is for troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement, and I don't see that capping off the wires is troubleshooting, testing, or voltage measurement.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
What if a jurisdiction does not follow NFPA70E?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
If they are subject to OSHA, they need to have an equally comprehensive policy if they do not choose 70E.
If they are not subject to OSHA nor state equivalent, I do not know what they might do.,
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Where I work we don't follow NFPA70E I'm guessing that's because it was never formally adopted. Even if it were they would surely look to blur the lines between what's allowed and what isn't.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Is some other comprehensive safety standard explicitly referenced or else a locally written comprehensive policy? If not, you employer is probably not OSHA compliant.
OSHA does not require that you choose an adopted standard, just that you can point to some credible standard when the lawsuit or citation hits.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I don't believe any jurisdiction has enacted a law requiring it.
And I agree again but if a term is defined in a manual, it does hold weight. There are times when speaking legalese to use words such as grounded conductor and ungrounded conductor then there are times to use hot and neutral, it all depends on how proper you need to be.
It's kind of like specs where in the general conditions it says the electrical contractor from this point forward will be refered to as this contractor.
Roger.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
OSHA does not require it either. But it is an industry consensus standard that gives you some legal and OSHA liability coverage if you follow it.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
My point is to make sure you are using the terminology the other people in the conversation understand and are also using.
Simply saying a person was shocked at work because hot work permits were not required, can be very misleading depending on the audience.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I often wonder why professional, highly skilled and trained electricians cannot work on live circuits. Linemen are out there every day doing just that so why is it taboo for the rest of us? Certainly an electrician is capable of learning how to work safely on energized equipment.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
NFPA70E is about safe electrical work practices, it does not even contain the word electrician.
i know of many industrial electricians that are not licensed, even if they have been trained. I do not know of any DIY lineman.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Insurance companies are a big reason in my opinion.
I think your opinion is correct, I would also add lawyers to that. Let face it we live in a sue happy world, people are always look for easy money and that nothing is their fault. Always got to blame someone else for their mistake.
“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
James Lee
Member
- Location
- Dallas Texas
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I was written up for not securing the circuit.
What is the definition of securing the circuit? Could yours and his understanding be different?
“ shoot low boys their riding shetland ponies”
- Status