Would this be a violation?

[mbrooke]

Then what we can see is probably ok. Whether or not flexible cord is even allowed is a possible issue, but from what we can see in the picture we don't know enough to determine if it is allowed.

ETA, you posted it, can you tell us more about what those conductors go to?

To a portable backup generator.

 

[kwired]

To a portable backup generator.

The lower group of them appears to be from a second "source" but the upper group of conductors in question appear to connect to the common side of the transfer switch, so they must supply a load in both normal and standby positions of the switch?

 

[mbrooke]

The lower group of them appears to be from a second "source" but the upper group of conductors in question appear to connect to the common side of the transfer switch, so they must supply a load in both normal and standby positions of the switch?

You know, I just realized that. But assuming it was for a generator only for the sake of the discussion. I've seen this done else where for a generator.

 

[cloudibew]

I'm calling fake. Nobody in the real world puts phase tape on that evenly.

I do, different style of phasing it but evenly wrapped evenly spaces across all conductors. You may be correct but if not that guy was a true professional.

 

[mbrooke]

I do, different style of phasing it but evenly wrapped evenly spaces across all conductors. You may be correct but if not that guy was a true professional.

:roll: So how would one photo shop phase tape like that?

 

[cloudibew]

Noticing the lack of sheen, the use of strain reliefs, the number of strands under the lugs as well as the cut piece in the lower left corner of the pic those are not thhn but what is commonly called "welders cable" and are typically used for trailered generators. If those run to a permant generator all i can see is a cheap client but i suspect those are just tails waiting to be rolled out to a generator when the need arises then rolled back up when NIU. But i dont know if that would be less than an actual tie-in pedestal, clean job though.

 

[jap]

I'm calling fake. Nobody in the real world puts phase tape on that evenly.

Probably an attempt to draw your attention away from the crooked pipes and strut, the 2 short pieces of short 1/2" emt where a full stick wasn't used, the
coupling where the set screws aren't facing forward and the 4 square blank cover washers.

JAP>

 

[mbrooke]

Noticing the lack of sheen, the use of strain reliefs, the number of strands under the lugs as well as the cut piece in the lower left corner of the pic those are not thhn but what is commonly called "welders cable" and are typically used for trailered generators. If those run to a permant generator all i can see is a cheap client but i suspect those are just tails waiting to be rolled out to a generator when the need arises then rolled back up when NIU. But i dont know if that would be less than an actual tie-in pedestal, clean job though.

Bingo! you are spot on :thumbsup: They are tails, and when utility power is out a mobile unit is rolled out back and those tails are rolled out to the unit.

 

[jap]

I can't tell by the picture.
Where is the upper set of "Tails" terminated?

JAP>

 

[mbrooke]

I can't tell by the picture.
Where is the upper set of "Tails" terminated?

JAP>

Cam type leads:

Very common in temp instillations such as TV sets and stage sets.

 

[kwired]

I'm calling fake. Nobody in the real world puts phase tape on that evenly.

Nothing too special about this one, more tape was used then I normally would, but some pictures posted on this site use an entire roll of tape per conductor being terminated.

Three or four wraps near the end of the conductor has always been fine for me. If you want the entire thing colored buy colored conductors for crying out loud

 

[JFletcher]

Few questions:

1) What is the unterminated small gauge (20-22?) black and red wires for coming from the upper left conduit?

2) In the bottom left of the picture, it appears one of the single cables coming out loops back up to a cut end (black outside, white insulation, copper core). Assuming that is the case, wouldnt that be incredibly dangerous?

3) What is that white oval shaped ring sitting on the neutral bar? Looks like a piece of NM cable.

The blank plate washers are inventive. Doubt they're rated for that use. "

No bushings on the EMT protection the cord for the e-light. Giving a pass on not using one stick of conduit; one, it's not a code violation, and I've done similar things with leftover < full sticks of conduit. Why run to the supply house when you've got a connector and enough conduit on the truck?

 

[jap]

Cam type leads:

Very common in temp instillations such as TV sets and stage sets.

I meant where are the upper left set of cables terminated on the X-fr Switch.
It's hard to tell in the picture on my screen.


JAP>

 

[kwired]

I meant where are the upper left set of cables terminated on the X-fr Switch.
It's hard to tell in the picture on my screen.


JAP>

I agree it is hard to tell but is obvious they don't go to top or bottom sets of lugs in the switch. This leaves the center lugs that have more congestion of conductors landing on them as about the only option. Neutrals are hard to trace as well but is likely that 25% of them are neutral conductors and the others are ungrounded conductors. The extra one by itself on the "top row" maybe is an EGC? Maybe was an EGC intended in the top hole of the bottom set of holes that got left open?


I think I would have run all those out the bottom of the enclosure if I were doing the same install.

 

[jap]

I agree it is hard to tell but is obvious they don't go to top or bottom sets of lugs in the switch. This leaves the center lugs that have more congestion of conductors landing on them as about the only option. Neutrals are hard to trace as well but is likely that 25% of them are neutral conductors and the others are ungrounded conductors. The extra one by itself on the "top row" maybe is an EGC? Maybe was an EGC intended in the top hole of the bottom set of holes that got left open?


I think I would have run all those out the bottom of the enclosure if I were doing the same install.

I agree and that's mostly what I'm seeing.
I also think the missing cable in the top on the side was probably for an EGC at one time?

One of the conduits coming into the back of the Xfr switch at the bottom seems to have parallel conductors in it.
The other coming in from the back seems to have a single set.
Both seem to be landed on the bottom of the upper 3 sets of contacts.
On the top of the upper 3 sets of contacts there are conductors leaving through the conduit conduit coming into the back at the top of the panel.

The lower set of camlock cables on the left land on the bottom of the lower 3 sets of contacts
Not sure what's happening in the middle but it still doesn't make a bit of sense to me if the 3 contacts on top close in one position and the 3 contacts on the bottom close in the other position.

Hard to make out.

JAP>

 

[jap]

I see the 6 camlock cables clearly landed on the bottom lugs of the 3 contacts.
A B and C phase. Brown, Orange and Yellow

If they are coming from the generator and the handle closes the 3 bottom contacts, what's happening in the middle and where are the other set of camlock cables landed?

I'm taking it that the upper 3 contacts close in one position and the bottom 3 contacts close in the other, but, I'm probably not understanding the switching sequence on this X-fr switch. or the wiring arrangement wouldn't work out.

JAP>

 

[kwired]

I agree and that's mostly what I'm seeing.
I also think the missing cable in the top on the side was probably for an EGC at one time?

One of the conduits coming into the back of the Xfr switch at the bottom seems to have parallel conductors in it.
The other coming in from the back seems to have a single set.
Both seem to be landed on the bottom of the upper 3 sets of contacts.
On the top of the upper 3 sets of contacts there are conductors leaving through the conduit conduit coming into the back at the top of the panel.

The lower set of camlock cables on the left land on the bottom of the lower 3 sets of contacts
Not sure what's happening in the middle but it still doesn't make a bit of sense to me if the 3 contacts on top close in one position and the 3 contacts on the bottom close in the other position.

Hard to make out.

JAP>

The unmarked black lines clearly coming off the top side of the lower set of contacts I'm guessing were factory installed to the top set of contacts making that the "common" point of the "transfer switch". Not sure exactly how they land on the assembly of the upper set of contacts though.

 

[jap]

The unmarked black lines clearly coming off the top side of the lower set of contacts I'm guessing were factory installed to the top set of contacts making that the "common" point of the "transfer switch". Not sure exactly how they land on the assembly of the upper set of contacts though.

That's what I'm getting at.

There are only (6) lower camlock temporary cables terminated on the bottom set of lugs on the bottom set of contacts. A B and C phase, 2 brown 2 orange 2 yellows.
if the middle is the common point of the switch as are most, and all of the temp cables are coming from a roll up generator,
How can the upper temporary camlock cables on the left land any where else other than on the bottom?

The upper set of temporary cam lock cables , (if terminated in the middle common point) must be there to serve some kind of load also.

JAP>

 

[mbrooke]

Few questions:

1) What is the unterminated small gauge (20-22?) black and red wires for coming from the upper left conduit?

2) In the bottom left of the picture, it appears one of the single cables coming out loops back up to a cut end (black outside, white insulation, copper core). Assuming that is the case, wouldnt that be incredibly dangerous?

3) What is that white oval shaped ring sitting on the neutral bar? Looks like a piece of NM cable.

The blank plate washers are inventive. Doubt they're rated for that use. "

No bushings on the EMT protection the cord for the e-light. Giving a pass on not using one stick of conduit; one, it's not a code violation, and I've done similar things with leftover < full sticks of conduit. Why run to the supply house when you've got a connector and enough conduit on the truck?

Honestly I do not know all the details- its an old photo that has been on my hard drive for a few years so I have no way accessing this particular building. The photo is more for discussion purposes as I have seen over a dozen buildings doing this exact same thing- they will take an MTS, put generator leads on the alternate source through the KOs- then during extended outages run flexible leads from a portable generator into the electrical room. The setup actually works well- but I am sure if this is really code complaint or not.

 

[mbrooke]

The unmarked black lines clearly coming off the top side of the lower set of contacts I'm guessing were factory installed to the top set of contacts making that the "common" point of the "transfer switch". Not sure exactly how they land on the assembly of the upper set of contacts though.

They are to tie the two sources together. The switch is such that either the top closes, both are open, or the bottom closes. Just another way to do an MTS.