Would this be Compliant?

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chris1971

chris1971

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Replace non grounding type receptacles (2 wire receptacles) on old 14-2 romex without a ground wire with a grounding type receptacle (3 wire receptacles). Install a dual function circuit breaker to satisfy the AFCI and GFCI requirements for non-grounding type receptacle?

Would this satisfy the requirements of 406.4? (NEC 2017)
 
chris1971 said:
Replace non grounding type receptacles (2 wire receptacles) on old 14-2 romex without a ground wire with a grounding type receptacle (3 wire receptacles). Install a dual function circuit breaker to satisfy the AFCI and GFCI requirements for non-grounding type receptacle?

Would this satisfy the requirements of 406.4? (NEC 2017)
Click to expand...

Yes. See 406.4(D)(2)(c) and 406.4(D)(4)(3)
 
Install a gfci receptacle and no afci is required. 406.4(D)(4) exception

Exception No. 1: Arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection shall not be
required where all of the following apply:
(1) The replacement complies with 406.4(D)(2)(b).
Click to expand...


406.4(D)(2)(b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted
to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type
of receptacle(s). These receptacles or their cover plates shall be
marked “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding
conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault
circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from
the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.
Click to expand...
 
there are four conditions to be met: two are easy peasy as basically same thing... the circuit has no ground so is being covered under the gfci use exception so part 1 and part 2 met. Exception 3... is there a combination arc fault breaker commercially available... depends upon where you are and what is stocked for your panel but in many cases the panel is old enough that this is met. Exception four... is there available combination outlets that can be used? Have heard there are but again, are they stocked? IF not stocked then they are not commercially available.
 
chris1971 said:
Replace non grounding type receptacles (2 wire receptacles) on old 14-2 romex without a ground wire with a grounding type receptacle (3 wire receptacles). Install a dual function circuit breaker to satisfy the AFCI and GFCI requirements for non-grounding type receptacle?

Would this satisfy the requirements of 406.4? (NEC 2017)
Click to expand...

I would say no. The code says GFCI receptacle. And it requires the placement of a label on the GFCI receptacle stating "No Equipment Ground". At a minimum, attempting the same thing with a standard 3 wire receptacle and a GFCI breaker would require a label on the standard 3 wire receptacle stating "No Equipment Ground". I'm not aware of the latter being allowed, even if it would create the electrical equivalence of the former.

Too many possible issues over time. Lose the label. Swap the breaker. Now there is a three prong outlet without an EGC and without GFCI protection. It's only electrically equivalent if it can be maintained as such. Limiting the exception to GFCI receptacles reduces the chance of a dangerous situation being created in the future.

But that's the read from a non-electrician non-practicing electrical engineer (me) thinking in engineering safety terms. I'm ready to be schooled otherwise by those in the daily weeds.
 
JPinVA said:
I would say no. The code says GFCI receptacle. And it requires the placement of a label on the GFCI receptacle stating "No Equipment Ground". At a minimum, attempting the same thing with a standard 3 wire receptacle and a GFCI breaker would require a label on the standard 3 wire receptacle stating "No Equipment Ground". I'm not aware of the latter being allowed, even if it would create the electrical equivalence of the former.

Too many possible issues over time. Lose the label. Swap the breaker. Now there is a three prong outlet without an EGC and without GFCI protection. It's only electrically equivalent if it can be maintained as such. Limiting the exception to GFCI receptacles reduces the chance of a dangerous situation being created in the future.

But that's the read from a non-electrician non-practicing electrical engineer (me) thinking in engineering safety terms. I'm ready to be schooled otherwise by those in the daily weeds.
Click to expand...

Coming from the "weeds" let the schooling begin!

You may replace a non-grounding receptacle with a grounding receptacle by either using a GFCI receptacle to protect it or a GFCI breaker. If you read the code and saw only the "GFCI receptacle" , then you didn't read down far enough.

406.4(D)(2)(C)
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted
to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where
supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Where
grounding-type receptacles are supplied through the ground fault
circuit interrupter, grounding-type receptacles or their
cover plates shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment
Ground,” visible after installation. An equipment grounding
conductor shall not be connected between the grounding type
receptacles.
 
Little Bill said:
Coming from the "weeds" let the schooling begin!

You may replace a non-grounding receptacle with a grounding receptacle by either using a GFCI receptacle to protect it or a GFCI breaker. If you read the code and saw only the "GFCI receptacle" , then you didn't read down far enough.

406.4(D)(2)(C)
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted
to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where
supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Where
grounding-type receptacles are supplied through the ground fault
circuit interrupter, grounding-type receptacles or their
cover plates shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment
Ground,” visible after installation. An equipment grounding
conductor shall not be connected between the grounding type
receptacles.
Click to expand...

Schooling accepted.
:dunce:
 
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