You Make The Call

[Jim W in Tampa]

Hang on a minute. I see another violation, can anyone else see it ?

 

[growler]

He gets paid the same - er - $50 more to come back out.

So you did not leave the $50 bill in the panel, this all makes sense now. He'll probably be real mad that he has to make two trips to get his money.

 

[growler]

Sure would be nice to ride around in nice AC truck and just wear out ink pens.

City of Atlanta electrical inspector drives up to a job in a new "Cadillac" one day. So I have to make a few jokes.

Me: Boy the city sure treats you guys well, new cadillac? :-?

Inspector: what are you talking about that's my personal car.

Me : How much do they pay you guys? :grin:

Inspector: Come on now, enough of that.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

City of Atlanta electrical inspector drives up to a job in a new "Cadillac" one day. So I have to make a few jokes.

Me: Boy the city sure treats you guys well, new cadillac? :-?

Inspector: what are you talking about that's my personal car.

Me : How much do they pay you guys? :grin:

Inspector: Come on now, enough of that.

Hey ,with 50 in each panel he should be doing better than a caddy.
My ex partner told me Miami was like that many years ago.

 

[paul]

In WA our state code reads:

WAC 296-46B-010

(6) All required equipment grounding conductors installed in concealed cable or flexible conduit systems must be completely installed and made up at the time of the rough-in cover inspection.

Therefore this would not have passed by the letter of the law.

 

[George Stolz]

Hang on a minute. I see another violation, can anyone else see it ?

What?

My vote is for laziness. By the looks of the dirt on the house, it looks like it's been sitting for a while.

The siding at that moment had been attached to the house for approximately 10 days.

Is'nt there something in code about temp wiring over 90 days?

:-?

I would have cut everything in put outlet and cover on and be done with it. Most of the work is done cutting box in, couple 2-3 more minutes the job is done.

You're going to have the painters mask off the bubble covers?

 

[ty]

I voted 'yes' but could easily have voted 'no'
But I'm not an inspector. So, here are some points of view:
If it is going to be a while before trim, I'd rather leave the rx sheathed and rolled up in the box. less weathering of the bare ground wires that way.
And the grounding pigtail is there, I would generally believe the grounds will be connected on trim, ESPECIALLY if I knew the Electrician that wired the place.

We typically install the outdoor receptacles on the rough in. When the meter gets energized, we'll power up this circuit for other trades to use on site. (that one at the panel just isn't enough for some people). We also don't typically use this exact type set up for outdoor receptacles.

 

[C3PO]

Our local amendments in my area do require the grounds to be made up for the rough inspection. But that being said I have never stripped the jacket or made up anything on any exterior boxes and have never been given any grief over it. I like to leave the jacket on for extra protection since it is outside.

I agree with you George, the inspector should have been able to look at the rest of your work and know that it would be done right when you did trim it out.

 

[K8MHZ]

Luckily, the inspectors I have encountered have common sense.

There have been areas where I knew paint was going to be sprayed and didn't want to end up with all the conductors the same color.

The solution was simply making the grounds up in the other areas and having those boxes easy to inspect. I then explain to the inspector that is how all the boxes will be made up and that I intentionally left the sheath on a good portion of the others to mitigate paint damage.

So far, that has worked just fine.

Gaining the confidence of your local inspector can go far in the long run.

 

[SEO]

I agree with you George, the inspector should have been able to look at the rest of your work and know that it would be done right when you did trim it out.

What if George did not finish the work? Maybe his helper did or in a worst case George or his company did not complete the finish. Make the grounds up and avoid the confucian.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have yet to see one post with an article to back up how they voted. This is simply an inspectors desire and perhaps a local call.

 

[George Stolz]

I have yet to see one post with an article to back up how they voted. This is simply an inspectors desire and perhaps a local call.

I didn't expect any code references because of that. I was just curious what the national "standard" is. Looks like I'm in the minority, so I feel better about changing my ways.

 

[rcarroll]

If you installed it, & I inspected it, green tag. :grin: You know it's ok in our town.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

George , are they drywall screws you used ?
Personally while i voted NO I do think the inspector was pushing it a bit if this was the only issue for the whole job. Many here never only site 1 item just in case they happen to be proved wrong. They will find something else even if trivial. Perhaps a missed nail guard or find 1 box were your box fill went over by 1 cubic inch. Or spacing ended up 12 feet and 1 inch between outlets. If this was all he could find i would say you did a great job.

One major thing we need to know here is was this the first time this inspector seen your work.
Perhaps he simply did not know you or your company.

Residential is and always has been a hard game to win at. Very hard to make money unless your young and very fast. I am glad i gave up residential.

Would suggest a phone call to this inspector and see if talking to him helps. Keep it friendly and maybe this can have happy ending.

 

[cadpoint]

I have yet to see one post with an article to back up how they voted. This is simply an inspectors desire and perhaps a local call.

Exactly

I didn't expect any code references because of that. I was just curious what the national "standard" is. Looks like I'm in the minority, so I feel better about changing my ways.

From the first post; Is this exterior box on a house ready for *rough* inspection?

Others have said it, if the pigtail isn't made up it will not pass around here, if the the branch circuit is in. If a metal box is installed and no branch circuit wire in there still needs to be pigtail in.

 

[growler]

Would suggest a phone call to this inspector and see if talking to him helps. Keep it friendly and maybe this can have happy ending.

That's how I would try to deal with this. If you were on the job most inspectors would just tell you to make up the ground and they wouldn't wait around to see if you did it. They did take action because they informed you of the fault.

George wasn't at the job site. Now a phone call to the inspector to let him know that he is aware of the prroblem and it will be taken care of should be sufficient.

An inspector is not required to check every little thing on a job to make sure that you tighten every screw or check every wire not. It's not as if you are a green helper and he is a journeyman watching you to make sure that you learn the trade. If anything ever goes wrong on that job it's still the contractor that has the responsibility and not the inspector. When he has informed you that this is not how it's done then he has done his job.


If the inspector were to find any real code violtations that show that George didn't have a full understanding of the NEC then a re-inspection would be in order.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Had one the other day, every thing stripped and made up making it easy to look at. "so why don't you have any grounding pigtails in you switch boxes." "Because their switches." "And how are you going to ground your switches?" "I have to ground the switches?"

Find it now or find it later, it's usually easier to fix it at rough.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

What i would suggest in a situation like this would be to use a plastic cut in box. Now you have nothing to ground so romex need not be striped. Also gives you far more room for a GFI receptacle.

That inspector likely has many jobs to inspect and little time. He could have done many things here. Leave note but that now comes down to trust and if he knows you. He could look at total job and figure the man knows about grounding and just pass it. Could have called George if a number was left. Or he could and did simply tag him. With most inspectors a call and your word that it will be done would be enough. Then on final inspector pulls cover and checks. Now the inspector is in a win win situation. If done he knows he can trust him if not then tag it and spend next hour or 2 inspecting this house extra good and tag it for every nit picking violation he finds.

I see both sides to this. If George finishes it i am sure it will be done. If helpers do it all bets are off.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Had one the other day, every thing stripped and made up making it easy to look at. "so why don't you have any grounding pigtails in you switch boxes." "Because their switches." "And how are you going to ground your switches?" "I have to ground the switches?"

Find it now or find it later, it's usually easier to fix it at rough.

Problem i seen far too often is a helper or even a journeyman was trained by an old timer that was not qualified himself and is teaching the helper wrong ways. Always hate being handed a helper that i do not know. Takes time before you know what you can trust him with.

Did you leave wondering how many switches are out there that were never grounded ?
You did him a favor by catching it.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Problem i seen far too often is a helper or even a journeyman was trained by an old timer that was not qualified himself and is teaching the helper wrong ways. Always hate being handed a helper that i do not know. Takes time before you know what you can trust him with.

Did you leave wondering how many switches are out there that were never grounded ?
You did him a favor by catching it.

Well since the code section is only a couple of cycles old, I know that there are many many many switches out there that are not grounded. But now it's requied and I know that there are still many many many that don't get grounded.:roll: A lot of guys try the, I don't have to ground it if I attach it to a metal box. Yeah if you pull off one of the plastic washers and the yoke is in contact with the ring. Most boxes are not installed so that they are actually flush with the finished surface, so the ears of the switch hold them off the mud ring.