Your number is way out of line !!!!

[growler]

To be fair I can see where a homewoner that sees to quotes, one for over $900 and another for only $550 may have questions.

If he really knew what was going on he would feel better about paying the $900.

There is no question in my mind that the $550 quote was some guy working under the table with no intention of getting a permit ( he really can't afford to ). He may not even be planning on doing a code compliant job ( it happens all the time ). He may not even know what he's doing ( again it happens all the time). So I don't even count that one.

There are only two legitmate quotes and I'm willing to bet that the OP has the cheaper quote for the final bill but the homeowner doesn't understand this. He is being sold a bill of goods and doesn't even know it. The homeowner will learn but it will be a little late to help the OP.

If I were the OP I would E-mail the customer back and ask if the cheap bidder is a licensed and legitimate contractor ( probably not). I would also ask if the other contractor was willing to give confirmed bid price for a completed and inspected job ( again probably not). I would inform him that he can pay a confirmed price or buy a pig in a poke having only herd the squeal.

 

[480sparky]

To be fair I can see where a homewoner that sees to quotes, one for over $900 and another for only $550 may have questions.

If he really knew what was going on he would feel better about paying the $900.

There is no question in my mind that the $550 quote was some guy working under the table with no intention of getting a permit ( he really can't afford to ). He may not even be planning on doing a code compliant job ( it happens all the time ). He may not even know what he's doing ( again it happens all the time). So I don't even count that one.

There are only two legitmate quotes and I'm willing to bet that the OP has the cheaper quote for the final bill but the homeowner doesn't understand this. He is being sold a bill of goods and doesn't even know it. The homeowner will learn but it will be a little late to help the OP.

If I were the OP I would E-mail the customer back and ask if the cheap bidder is a licensed and legitimate contractor ( probably not). I would also ask if the other contractor was willing to give confirmed bid price for a completed and inspected job ( again probably not). I would inform him that he can pay a confirmed price or buy a pig in a poke having only herd the squeal.

There's the answer right there. You simply state that your work includes all legally-required permits, insurance, etc. etc. If the low-baller doesn't have that, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[220/221]

If I were the OP I would E-mail the customer back and ask if the cheap bidder is a licensed and legitimate contractor

Trying not to be arguementitive here but what would be the purpose?


To try and get the job?

When someone presents themselves in a manner such as this, I don't want to work for him. Even if I do get the job there will more than likely be issues.



To defend your pricing?

I don't feel the need to defend my pricing. It is what it is.


People like this need to be ignored. They have every right to get quotes and hire whoever they choose but they don't have the right to waste my time.

 

[growler]

To defend your pricing?

I don't feel the need to defend my pricing. It is what it is.

I don't see it so much defending my pricing as educating the consumer. I wouldn't bother telling him how much the materials cost but pointing out the fact that the other contractor didn't give a confirmed priced is different. He can try to get a confirmed price from the other guy if he wishes. He can do his homework and check out the cheap contractor.

You are never dealing with just one individual you are actually making contact with him and all his friends and relatives ( prospective customers). Even if he hires the other guy and gets screwed he may remember that you warned him and that your company offered the better deal.

This is all part of a long range sales strategy. Make every customer feel important and just because you are not doing business today doesn 't mean you can't do business tomorrow.

Giving a customer a little information so they can make an educated decision is not the same as trying to justify pricing. Electrical contracting is nothing but salesmanship. Ever see an insuance agent say to a customer " this policy is going to be $2000 take it or leave it". They spend all kinds of time trying to figure out ways to make their product look better than that of the competition even though they are pretty much the same.

The other guys are trying to sell based on price alone. To sell a higher quality product may take a bit more effort ( about 10 minutes ). :smile: :smile:

 

[220/221]

I agree 100% with educating the customer but this particular kind of customer, based on the way I interpeted his actions, was not even worth 10 minutes. He just rubbed me the wrong way. When I see red flags, I take notice.

 

[Rich R]

I think that's a bit on the High side. Two guys to run only 30' ft. of conduit half a day. Also let the home owner pull the permit.

Are you serious ? last time I checked it was illegal for a homeowner to pull a permit and then hire a contractor to do the work

You think that you can do this job in less than 4 hours ? Let's see,

Ring doorbell
unload materials and tools
open up existing panel (move whatever junk is piled up in front of it)
knockout 1" hole
90 out of panel and run conduit
Drill hole to outside
install LB
Mount disconnect
run 1" conduit towards spa
change over to flex
open spa covers up
stick fish tape in conduit
Lay out wiring and phase it
pull wire through conduit
Install 2pole breaker in panel and connect wire
wire up disconnect panel and breakers
wire up spa connections
install w/p box with GFI under disconnect
install any bonding needed
close up spa covers
close up disconnect panel and mark breakers
close up breaker panel and mark breaker
test spa
clean up basement and spa area
load tools back up
explain to customer what breakers are what
write bill

If you can do all of this in less than 4 hours you are a superhero, and I would also hate to see what it looked like when you were done, keep in mind I'm not even counting getting materials, pulling permit and getting any inspections

 

[satcom]

Are you serious ? last time I checked it was illegal for a homeowner to pull a permit and then hire a contractor to do the work

You think that you can do this job in less than 4 hours ? Let's see,

Ring doorbell
unload materials and tools
open up existing panel (move whatever junk is piled up in front of it)
knockout 1" hole
90 out of panel and run conduit
Drill hole to outside
install LB
Mount disconnect
run 1" conduit towards spa
change over to flex
open spa covers up
stick fish tape in conduit
Lay out wiring and phase it
pull wire through conduit
Install 2pole breaker in panel and connect wire
wire up disconnect panel and breakers
wire up spa connections
install w/p box with GFI under disconnect
install any bonding needed
close up spa covers
close up disconnect panel and mark breakers
close up breaker panel and mark breaker
test spa
clean up basement and spa area
load tools back up
explain to customer what breakers are what
write bill

If you can do all of this in less than 4 hours you are a superhero, and I would also hate to see what it looked like when you were done, keep in mind I'm not even counting getting materials, pulling permit and getting any inspections

How about his overhead and operating expenses, anyone that claims the job price is high, is most likely not in business. More like someone playing with electrical work part time, with no license, no insurances, and no business smarts, for sure.

 

[c2500]

Are you serious ? last time I checked it was illegal for a homeowner to pull a permit and then hire a contractor to do the work

Well in SC, it is not illegal. In fact you sign a form saying that if you do hire someone, he/she is to be licensed.

c2500

 

[220/221]

I think that's a bit on the High side. Two guys to run only 30' ft. of conduit half a day

Running the 30' of conduit is only 1/4 of the job.

Don't forget that you have to get there and back. 2 guys = at least 2 hours even if it's right down the street. More than likely you would at least double that.

Don't forget that he already HAS an hour invested. Hell, I have a half hour in it myself :roll:

 

[sparky 134]

Strangely enough I have not heard back from the customer. I guess he is too incessed about my price.

I stated to him via email that my price is what a license, bonded, insured ELECTRICAL contractor should charge for this type of project. Obviously his other pricing is from:

1) Someone doing the work as a sidejob
2) A new 'electrical' contractor who has yet to realize the actual cost of doing business
3) The local handyman who has all of the necessary skills to make the hottub work !!

I'm not losing any sleep over this. These days I'm less and less inclined to travel to look at the small jobs. With the present economy there are too many contractors willing to work for ANYTHING, usually less than what they should be charging.

I'm willing to bet the other 'contractors' did not include installing a 70amp feed or installing the 20amp GFCI under the spa panel. They are probably proposing to install a 50amp feed to the spa panel which is the minimum required.

There will always be cheaper contractors than me. That's just the way it is...

 

[DanZ]

Personally, I always question the low bid and the high bid. I try to find out what the difference is. Some of what I've seen is:

-Low bid buying from Safety Orange or Blue Box without a markup
-Low bid "making it work", not "making it right"
-Low bid bidding code complaint work, not following plans
-Low bid following plans, but not coordinating (pricing cheapest material available that meets specs)

-High bid following plans and code, plus extras
-High bid pricing most expensive materials available

You know, that's the kind of stuff that needs to be on home improvement shows.:grin:

 

[jimmyglen]

I bid a fair amount of hot tubs and dont get many of them. I think a lot of people dont permit them here and just wire them using Romex.

I will get my code book out - but I thought we had to have an insulated ground running to hot tubs?

maybe this is why I dont get many

the cost of running romex vs MC or EMT is huge in my opinion.

 

[480sparky]

the cost of running romex vs MC or EMT is huge in my opinion.

What is the cost of losing your license?

 

[Minuteman]

I will get my code book out - but I thought we had to have an insulated ground running to hot tubs?

maybe this is why I dont get many

the cost of running romex vs MC or EMT is huge in my opinion.

You could run romex to a small panel or disconnect, and then pull an insulated ground in the carflex whip. :smile:

 

[emahler]

Hot tubs....check manufacturers instructions... Inspectors who know, do.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Hot tubs....check manufacturers instructions... Inspectors who know, do.

Yes. They are often listen as #6 conductor minimum in the instructions also.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

your cost is low!

your cost is low!

I don't know how you can install a hot tub service and sub-panel at that cost (I'm not questioning you) its just that code requires that you use rigid conduit with an insulated ground 680.21. Assembling any length of 1" conduit with LBs and bends, plus 6awg wiring to the panel, then the new wiring for the sub-panel (disconnect) to the hot-tub, as well as the receptacle with 20 feet 680.22 (A) (3) can easily cost you well over 800 dollars. stick to your guns!

 

[cowboyjwc]

Well in SC, it is not illegal. In fact you sign a form saying that if you do hire someone, he/she is to be licensed.

c2500

Here in CA too.

 

[Minuteman]

680.42 Outdoor Installation.