Your opinion

[jksmith82]

Hi All,
My customer has a gear dryer for firefighting equipment. When it was ordered the voltage was to be 208 volt 3 phase. The unit came in and the nomenclature plate indicates it as 240 volt 3 phase. The manufacturers engineering department said to wire it 208 volt 3 phase anyway. I am hesitant because of the nomenclatures voltage rating. Not to mention the purchase price is about $10,000. What are your thoughts?

Jim

 

[Chamuit]

If there is a concern, get it in writing on company letterhead.

 

[texie]

Hi All,
My customer has a gear dryer for firefighting equipment. When it was ordered the voltage was to be 208 volt 3 phase. The unit came in and the nomenclature plate indicates it as 240 volt 3 phase. The manufacturers engineering department said to wire it 208 volt 3 phase anyway. I am hesitant because of the nomenclatures voltage rating. Not to mention the purchase price is about $10,000. What are your thoughts?

Jim

Assuming it has resistive heating elements the end result will be 25% reduced heating capacity. Also could be issues with other things such as control transformers, etc.

 

[jksmith82]

As of now I have an email from the manufacturers engineering department. But I am concerned about the electronics and the less heat it will produce because of the lower voltage. I am thinking they just don’t want to have it shipped back and build another dryer and pay the re shipping. The dryer was purchased through a grant but still has a price tag of about $10,000. I know I could boost the voltage but that’s an expense the fire company should not absorb.

Jim

 

[JFletcher]

As of now I have an email from the manufacturers engineering department. But I am concerned about the electronics and the less heat it will produce because of the lower voltage. I am thinking they just don’t want to have it shipped back and build another dryer and pay the re shipping. The dryer was purchased through a grant but still has a price tag of about $10,000. I know I could boost the voltage but that’s an expense the fire company should not absorb.

Jim

Any control Transformers on this would only be wired 240 volts as there is no neutral in a 3 phase 240-volt installation, save for high leg Delta. Running that transformer at 208 volts maybe a problem.

That said, I would state my objections and would want a written sign off from your engineering department before you install it, just in case there are any problems which someone would want to pin on you.

 

[jksmith82]

Any control Transformers on this would only be wired 240 volts as there is no neutral in a 3 phase 240-volt installation, save for high leg Delta. Running that transformer at 208 volts maybe a problem.

That said, I would state my objections and would want a written sign off from your engineering department before you install it, just in case there are any problems which someone would want to pin on you.

Thank you for the reply’s. I appreciate all input.

jim

 

[Sierrasparky]

Have it sent back as it won't perform as ordered , a 240v heating element will put out less heat as others have stated.

That said. If they don't manufacture a 208 version then you are just spinning your wheels.

 

[jksmith82]

Thank for all your opinions. I ended up advising the customer to call and have them ship a new dryer.

Have a great day,
Jim

 

[Besoeker]

If there is a concern, get it in writing on company letterhead.

I concur. It absolves the OP from non-performance issues resulting from the reduced voltage.

 

[jksmith82]

Hi All,
The issue continues. The customer called the Representative for the gear dryer company to have it returned for a new one. The manufacturer says it put on the wrong nomenclature plate. They then requested us to send them a picture of the UL sticker that’s inside the the electrical enclosure so the can cross reference. Any thoughts?

thanks,
Jim

 

[texie]

Hi All,
The issue continues. The customer called the Representative for the gear dryer company to have it returned for a new one. The manufacturer says it put on the wrong nomenclature plate. They then requested us to send them a picture of the UL sticker that’s inside the the electrical enclosure so the can cross reference. Any thoughts?

thanks,
Jim

Starting to sound fishy on their part. If this is fact a UL listed piece of equipment I would drag UL into the discussion. They can get their attention. We do it regularly when things get like this with questions on equipment.
I don't know any of the UL folks that serve your area but here is a start: https://www.ul.com/code-authorities/keeping-in-touch/contact-us/

 

[jksmith82]

Thank you very much. That was very helpful. This is going to get interesting . Have a great night.

Jim


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[Fmkehoe]

Keep us posted. This IS going to get interesting.

 

[jksmith82]

I certainly will. Thanks.

Jim


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[mbrooke]

I certainly will. Thanks.

Jim


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Is there a link to the wiring diagram or service manual? I can't find it online.

 

[LarryFine]

The manufacturer says it put on the wrong nomenclature plate.

I would ask for where within the equipment proof of the actual voltage rating can be found.

 

[MAC702]

Any control Transformers on this would only be wired 240 volts as there is no neutral in a 3 phase 240-volt installation, save for high leg Delta. Running that transformer at 208 volts maybe a problem...

I agree with this and with the plan to get it affirmed either way, but I can add that I have several times run across large air conditioners on commercial rooftops that are hooked up to 208V and the installer (years ago) had not swapped the tap on the control transformer from 240V to 208V. The compressors and motors were rated for both, but there is a note (it was still there) telling the installer to change the tap on the control transformer when hooking up to the lower 208V.

I was only there performing routine maintenance when I saw this. I went ahead and changed all the taps, and notified the owners, but the machines had been running just fine since installation....

Obviously, this may have very different controls that might care, but I only have one story to tell, so that's what you get. FWIW, HVAC controls are nominally 24VAC, but most actually operate at 28V - 29V.

 

[jksmith82]

Good Morning All. I went over the the customer yesterday and took some pictures of the prints. Notice on the bottom right corner, it does say 208-240 but I still have a problem with the unit because the nomenclature says the supply is for 240 3phase. I was also thinking maybe the prints are a standard set they send with all the units with different voltages. The dryer also has some components that specifically say 230-240 volt. I will also upload them as well. Thanks for your time. I was also thinking the resistive heating elements would be different for different voltages to maintain a certain temperature. Which is crucial to firefighting gear to maintain its flame retardant. That statement was told to me, so I just assume it’s correct. Also her is the UL listing. https://iq.ulprospector.com/en/profile?e=227092. Have a great day.

jim

 

[GoldDigger]

...
... I was also thinking the resistive heating elements would be different for different voltages to maintain a certain temperature. Which is crucial to firefighting gear to maintain its flame retardant. That statement was told to me, so I just assume it’s correct. ....

If the heating element is running flat out continuously to maintain a set temperature, then a lower than nominal input voltage would mean a lower temperature.
But in practice most heating elements have more power than needed for steady state operation and so a thermostat is used to cycle the heater to get the set temperature.
The lower voltage would mean more on time in the duty cycle and a longer time to reach set temperature, but would not necessarily lower the max temperature (within the normal operating range).

But for a clothes dryer full of wet clothes or a space heater in an uninsulated space you might actually reduce the available maximum temperature.

 

[jksmith82]

Thank you Golddigger. I appreciate your input.

Jim


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