I will love to replace this panel, it is in a mobile home, but the only issue at this moment is the 90 amps breaker for the furnace, I never replace a breaker on a Zinsco (always replace the panel) and it have a channel (?) in both sides, I think that is I remove the main lugs I can slide the breaker up and is the bus is damaged I can install it at the bottom. Any input appreciated ... Sorry, but the photos be straight and not horizontal and a difficult place for photos
Zinsco breaker
- Thread starter Esthy
- Start date
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Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
breakers should come off opposite wire connector side first.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
There were some panels with a red bar that would lock the breakers in. You would have to stick something in to release it.
The bar had one-way screws & was used in early Zinsco panels which IIRC were still using plated copper bus bars, that panel is much "newer" then that, because it has the infamous Zinsco aluminum bus, Cutler-Hammer also had a bar to lock breakers in in early type CH loadcenters.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
The stabs on those old breakers are known to get weak and lose their spring tension, which makes them get hot and arc to the buss bars. I've had a tough time removing them when that happens. And sometimes they are just REALLY tight from never being removed.
Basically, you might just have to pull harder!
Basically, you might just have to pull harder!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Looks like you have a split bus panel on top of everything else with more then 6 "mains" installed.
A little hard to tell but looks like neutral/EGC separation has been maintained - which is maybe a little surprising over how long it has probably existed.
A little hard to tell but looks like neutral/EGC separation has been maintained - which is maybe a little surprising over how long it has probably existed.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I agree with Kwired. Split bus. Moving the 90 Amp breaker to the open bus, at the end opposite the main lugs, installs the furnace on the 60 Amp lighting section of the panel.
I agree with Kwired. Split bus. Moving the 90 Amp breaker to the open bus, at the end opposite the main lugs, installs the furnace on the 60 Amp lighting section of the panel.
Yes, Split bus. I would like to move the breaker to the "bottom", but can I install the 90 amps breaker on the 60 amps lighting section of the panel? I would like to do so, even that this is a Zinsco panel the rest of the bus looks good. The main disconnect at the pedestal is a 200 amps Zinsco breaker as well. See photos. I was hard to remove the breaker as it was "fused" to the bus. Please let me know ASAP, so I can do this repair and no replacement of this Zinsco panel now (low income client) thanks
Yes, Split bus. I would like to move the breaker to the "bottom", but can I install the 90 amps breaker on the 60 amps lighting section of the panel? I would like to do so, even that this is a Zinsco panel the rest of the bus looks good. The main disconnect at the pedestal is a 200 amps Zinsco breaker as well. See photos. I was hard to remove the breaker as it was "fused" to the bus. Please let me know ASAP, so I can do this repair and no replacement of this Zinsco panel now (low income client) thanks
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If you are assuming the 60 amp main for the lighting section trips at correct load - you will be tripping the lighting main whenever the heat runs, otherwise many people claim Zinsco do not trip so maybe you don't really have this problem
hmy: Either way the load for the bottom part passes through the 60 amp lighting main to get there.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Yup. The only way you can answer the question accurately is to take stock of the actual loads at the trailer.If you are assuming the 60 amp main for the lighting section trips at correct load - you will be tripping the lighting main whenever the heat runs, otherwise many people claim Zinsco do not trip so maybe you don't really have this problem
There are five branch circuits in the "lighting section" - what are the loads on those circuits? How are they distributed among the two busses, and, then, what is remaining of the 14,400 Watt "let through" of the 60 Amp lighting section main breaker?
Also, don't forget the smaller breakers with the green handles (30 Amp ?) and their connected loads. I don't have a clue, from my side of the computer screen, what the loads are, but maybe moving those breakers will provide the spot for the furnace.
You have to do the work of writing a list of the load nameplates values and figuring out what is running.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
At this point, you are wasting time and money trying to save that old panel. Now that you've seen the 90 amp breaker has fused to the buss and has pitted contacts, it makes NO sense to install this bad breaker in another spot in the panel. It will only happen again. Replace the panel before you melt it down moving a bad breaker around.
They got 40+ years out of this panel, so they got their money's worth. It's time for a replacement.
They got 40+ years out of this panel, so they got their money's worth. It's time for a replacement.
Here is the disconnect at the pedestal. I still thinking! Will the bus protected by the 60 amps (rated?) accept this 90 amps breaker for the furnace? Will trip the 60 amps when furnace start and cut the power for the lighting and receptacles? Man, the older I get the picky I go!
Sorry, I posted the last photos after your posts. The green breakers (DP), top one is 40 amps for the Range, 30 amps for the Water Heater and 30 amps for the Dryer. Split bus breakers are for two 20s SP for kitchen and bath receptacles and three 15s SP for lighting and receptacles. Using common sense and your posts I think it's better to replace this panel, I really was trying hard to save the money for those people, but ....
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Agreed.
Esthy, I hope you have been saying you have a new breaker to replace the old one, and are going to do it on a good section of bus. Seeing the buss damage in your photo, the old 90 Amp breaker is junk.
That furnace is electric heat, right? Remember it is "defined" as a continuous load, what ever it is . . . you have to get the information from the furnace, not the breaker. But I can't tell, as I can't inspect the furnace from this side of my computer screen.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
A rule of thumb I use for 60 Amp services (I am thinking of the 60 Amp lighting section in this trailer as if it were a stand alone 60 Amp service) is that they will handle one major load (usually an average electric range). In your situation, the Water Heater and the Dryer are each smaller than the average electric range, but, together, would be just enough load to, in my mind, require a calculation to verify that the load, with the 120 Volt branch circuits, will, in fact, run safely, per NEC, on the 60 Amp Main. Given that this is a trailer, the square footage may well be lower than many dwellings, working in your favor for the calculation.
You may still be able to help this low income situation with a conservative repair.
I never repaired those Zinscos panels but as I replaced those panels I keep the breakers for emergency repairs and I have one 100, one 90 and several 15, 20, etc., so it will be another breaker, I can clean that part of the bus and install the new breaker ... but how long it will last? I am not really comfortable in putting a 90 in the split bus, specially when everything there from the pedestal to the panel is Zinsco. Any other alternative besides replacing the panel?
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
I really think you're doing the customer a disservice by trying to salvage this old panel even installing another used 90 amp breaker. I've never tried to file the buss in a Zinsco to clean it up, but I'd consider doing it if it was an emergency to get power back on until I could replace the panel.
I'd rather install a new panel and put them on a payment plan than try to salvage something this old which is clearly on the way out.
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