Aprentice charges on service, and small jobs
- Thread starter Mule
- Start date
- Status
May I suggest reading the article in the link below. Maybe it will be of some help.Mule said:
It's titled "The Case Of Flat Rate Pricing" by Frank Blau.
http://www.pmmag.com/Articles/Column/2bb61350f4fc7010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____
what happens when this truck dies? where does the money come from to buy a new one? heck, charge for it now, put it in a separate account, and pay cash for a new one...Mule said:
envious of this, when we ran resi service, $4000-6000 month...some of the big boys are over $50,000/month...Mule said:
what about when your SIL goes out on his own? where is the money for phone #2 gonna come from?Mule said:
that's it?Mule said:
won't even commentMule said:
what kind of insurance for $80?Mule said:
Mule said:
From your list above, you are operating like too many small shops...if you have hopes of growing, you need to calculate your overhead at least 1-2 trucks out...
when you need to increase advertising, will you be able to?
when you need to increase fuel, will you be able to?
how long will it take, in windshield time, to get you SIL up to speed?
what's your WC insurance?
Bad Debts?
T&E?
What's your weekly salary? (don't answer, just making a point)
what's your companies share of the rent/mortgage? I know you are working out of your house, but the business should be compensating you for the space it's taking up...
how much do you pay your wife to do the books?
how much do you pay for marketing/promotional items? invoices? business cards?
How much do you pay for vehicle maintenance? oil changes?
the list goes on..
good luck.
Sparky555 said:
Dave in all fairness, what makes you think that I have no medical coverage?, why do you think that I need a college fund?and why do you think I need to cover for my slow spells when you know nothing of my backlog? and why do you make remarks about my daughter and son inlaw. And why do you think Im going out of business when my truck dies?
What have I done to you? Have I be-littled your business? Your mean
I do have medical coverage,My service truck is 2006, my kids are grown and gone, and graduated I might add, my slow time is my vacation, and oh yes my daughter and son-inlaw live in a pretty nice home and can manage their affairs just fine, AND my retirement is already in place. AND if I want to keep my overhead low and you want to keep yours high, isnt this America?
Mule said:
do a search...it's in here...
Mule, don't take any of this the wrong way...no one on here has a vested interest in your success or failure...everyone is advocating that you take more pride in yourself and charge accordingly...
if anyone were advocating charge less and do without, then you would have justification for getting upset.
take it as the constructive criticism it is...look into your soul,...and determine if you are truly content, or just comfortable...
My Soul is just fine, my rates are in line with several succesfull competitors, and its my choice to keep my overhead low and pay as I go. And I dont really care to do the search.
I personally think $60-65 per hour is darn good money, when the consumers are struggling to get by with fuel cost and all, they dont need some one getting to deep into their wallet. AND I think that folks that sit around and think of ways to swell cost need to be accountable. Average folks around here are probably in $35-$50k range trying to raise a family, and its gives me a great deal of PRIDE in myself to be of service to them in a way that doesnt break their wallet. And if I want to be a small shop whats wrong with that? Dont tell me Im not charging enough when I have contractor friends who have huge homes and have done really well on the same rates. You cant compare different areas of this country. My son lives in the DC area and makes three to four times what I make, but so what?
I personally think $60-65 per hour is darn good money, when the consumers are struggling to get by with fuel cost and all, they dont need some one getting to deep into their wallet. AND I think that folks that sit around and think of ways to swell cost need to be accountable. Average folks around here are probably in $35-$50k range trying to raise a family, and its gives me a great deal of PRIDE in myself to be of service to them in a way that doesnt break their wallet. And if I want to be a small shop whats wrong with that? Dont tell me Im not charging enough when I have contractor friends who have huge homes and have done really well on the same rates. You cant compare different areas of this country. My son lives in the DC area and makes three to four times what I make, but so what?
my journeymen cost me $70/hr for their pay and benefits...and they just show up and give me 8 hrs..
point is, no one, at least me, is telling you that you are wrong...we, again at least me, are just giving you food for thought to let you make informed decisions.
good luck...
point is, no one, at least me, is telling you that you are wrong...we, again at least me, are just giving you food for thought to let you make informed decisions.
good luck...
And where do you live? and what does a 2500 square foot house cost? I bet its vastly different....I just bought a estimating book, that was actually last years (2007), but point is the national average cost of a journyman and benny's was $38.....around here union scale is in the high 20's per hour...
But for me I dont have to worry about all of that, because I do the labor, and I enyoy it tremendiously....and If I can make $4500 or so a month I'm a happy camper..........I dont like big business, or big cities. But other folks do, and thats ok
But for me I dont have to worry about all of that, because I do the labor, and I enyoy it tremendiously....and If I can make $4500 or so a month I'm a happy camper..........I dont like big business, or big cities. But other folks do, and thats ok
Mule said:
and that is fine and good...just do it with the knowledge...don't do it because you think that's all you can do...
good luck with everything...you may understand tomorrow what I am saying....you may understand next week...you may understand next year...but one day it will actually make sense.
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
tony is (shaking is head side to side, tsk, tsk tsk)
That was a very good article.aline said:
He mentions a T&M style format that he uses when a complaining customer insists on a 'breakdown' after a job has been completed, assumably.
It doesn't show up on the link. I would have liked to have seen it.
Everything said here was positive. Maybe not what you wanted to hear but it was ALL for your benefit.
You have pretty thin skin for an old guy
You mantra appears to be "work as cheap as I can". You show more concern for your customers than you do for yourself.
Most everyone here has different priorities and we put ourselves and our families first. Of course we still care about our customers. We wouldn't be around too long if we didn't. It's just that we care about our busness first.
It doesn't matter to anyone here if you want to work for free. What you charge is your decision. You came and asked for advice and you got it. Take it, leave it or take some of it. It is all good advice.
There was a time maybe 10 years ago when I felt I was overcharging on some jobs. I looked into my costs and the value of my work and realized that I was very improtant and had a lot to offer. I also realized that on some jobs I didn't fare so well.
Also, how many times have you put you body at risk doing service work....maybe even your life? That HAS to have some value.
My advice is, don't sell yourself short.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Mule said:
Mule, given that these questions were asked by you in the OP, and you put them out for all on this forum to read and respond to, I find your defensiveness more than a little silly. People post here on their own free time, and as Emahler said, no one has a vested interest in your success of your failure. So if you don't like the advice you got here, that's just too bad. You don't always hear what you want to hear on a forum.
Heh heh...I missed that part.
You are LOSING money on some materials.
You need a sliding scale. 20% on a $5000 piece of equipment might be good but on a 50 cent recep you make a whopping dime. It costs more than that to ACCOUNT for the damn thing. You buy the stuff, you stock the stuff and you warranty it. 100% MINIMUM on normal everyday items.
Gaaahh!!
I have overhead, but it's not killer.
I have overhead, but it's not killer.
I'm with Mule.
I have no desire to "grow" my company. I have it trimmed so that I pay my son and I wages comparable to if we were in the union. Including health insurance.
I have steady work, and figure my quotes at $135 to $170 for the two of us working togather. I pay cash for my truck, and cash for materials, no supply house accounts. The key is that I run away from any monthly payments!
So the only advertising I do is I made a simple web page so people can read my profile. For the last five years I've driven a four cylinder little truck with a work top. I save so much money on gas I don't care if now and then I have to run for something I didn't have. And I rarely work a Saturday, or take jobs more than about 40 min. away. I'm also picky about what GCs I'll work for.
Sometimes I give away a little time, or do those little extras, no sweat. Or do a job at a lower cost. I call it advertising, and I didn't have to sign a yearly contract for it.
It's kind of fun to go to the supply house and see guys with those big freightliner vans, elaborate signs on the sides, uniforms, and big, big overhead! They snicker when I drive up in my little Ford Ranger.
Thing is when business is slow I don't sweat it, I go fishing!
Rick
I have overhead, but it's not killer.
I'm with Mule.
I have no desire to "grow" my company. I have it trimmed so that I pay my son and I wages comparable to if we were in the union. Including health insurance.
I have steady work, and figure my quotes at $135 to $170 for the two of us working togather. I pay cash for my truck, and cash for materials, no supply house accounts. The key is that I run away from any monthly payments!
So the only advertising I do is I made a simple web page so people can read my profile. For the last five years I've driven a four cylinder little truck with a work top. I save so much money on gas I don't care if now and then I have to run for something I didn't have. And I rarely work a Saturday, or take jobs more than about 40 min. away. I'm also picky about what GCs I'll work for.
Sometimes I give away a little time, or do those little extras, no sweat. Or do a job at a lower cost. I call it advertising, and I didn't have to sign a yearly contract for it.
It's kind of fun to go to the supply house and see guys with those big freightliner vans, elaborate signs on the sides, uniforms, and big, big overhead! They snicker when I drive up in my little Ford Ranger.
Thing is when business is slow I don't sweat it, I go fishing!
Rick
- Status