Aprentice charges on service, and small jobs

[Mule]

My cousin is a GC in Ok. He wants me to get my EC there. I know whats required there. Some states don't require anything from what I understand.
Now thats really crazy. We can have to up to 3 to be exempt, thats neither here or there.
What if someone gets hurt?? Then you are in real trouble.
Another thing that I learned in the real world was that allot of the jobs out there require that you Have WC, that being exempt is not good enough.
Mule in you're OP, How is the economy doing there?
Here in Fl its not so good.

Thanks you asked about the economy here....its ok, but somewhat stagnet with school starting, and high fuel prices. Service work is slowed down to what I call "Got a Have its" and "Home improvements" call are pretty much at a stand still. But Ive got plenty of backlog so Ive been blessed. I have a "Sound and Audio", company "Remodeler" company, and a couple of Ranches that fill up any dead time I have. I havent had to reduce any prices to get work....:grin: Bet you liked that !!! Also doing some art 500 work, so Ive been busy...

 

[Mule]

Growler and others already told you what's wrong with it. It's not coming...it's here already.

Like a pack of wolves.......The point is I didnt ask whats wrong with it....I only asked about the title of this string....Im really a nice guy, but when you go probing into my affairs and telling what Im doing wrong, when I didnt ask for that...that offends me.

I ONLY ASKED ABOUT working the aprentice on small jobs and service....AH Mule Shut up..........

 

[peter d]

....Im really a nice guy, but when you go probing into my affairs and telling what Im doing wrong, when I didnt ask for that...that offends me.

You voluntarily offered up the information in this thread. No one made you stick around. You can leave at any time.

There's a saying that goes like this "Your friend is the one who tells you the truth."

 

[Mule]

You voluntarily offered up the information in this thread. No one made you stick around. You can leave at any time.

There's a saying that goes like this "Your friend is the one who tells you the truth."

AH...but you havent read all of the private messages Ive recieved telling me about the "Lurking" "Better than Thou" "Wolves" members....

I think its time to close this discussion..........Its useless.........and wasting all of our time..........

Thanks so much for the sincere comments....and for the less than fun comments.... I do apreciate your positive comments.

Closed..............

 

[aline]

I just started this business earlier this year, and I guess I dont have the confidence about pricing yet. I guess I have a hangup about overpricing, and running off a customer. I have over 30 years experience in the trade but not nescissarily at contracting.

my love is the trade and the customer, not the money...In my books if I take care of those two the money will be there, always has, and always will be.

The money may have been there in the past but you just started this business so it may not be there in the future if you're not charging enough. What happens if you get injured and can't work for a month or two.

The answer to your original question is simple. You need to charge enough to cover all of your expenses and make a profit. The look of shock on a customers face should have no bearing on what you charge.

If you can do it cheaper by leaving the SIL home than you can leave him home and charge the customer less. If taking the SIL with you costs you more to do the job than you need to charge the customer more. There's really no way around this.

Only you can determine how much you need to charge the customer based on your costs. If it costs more to take your SIL with you than you need to charge more. It's as simple as that. How much per hour needs to be base on your costs not the look of shock on the customer's face.

No one here knows what your costs are so the only advice you'll get is charge enough to cover all of your expenses and make a profit. You'll have to determine the best way to present this price to the customer. Hourly rate, flat rate or however you want to do it.

I find using a flat rate system and giving the customer the price upfront before starting the work is best for me.

 

[aline]

When I hand them the bill (charging for both of us) I get this shocker look. So, I tried everything from $90, $85, $75 for both of us and I cant seem to find the niche.

You need to pick the one that covers all your expenses and makes you a profit. Only you know which one it is.
Out of the three choices I would pick the $90.

 

[zappy]

I'm trying to learn what to charge for material

I'm trying to learn what to charge for material

Heh heh...I missed that part.

You are LOSING money on some materials.

You need a sliding scale. 20% on a $5000 piece of equipment might be good but on a 50 cent recep you make a whopping dime. It costs more than that to ACCOUNT for the damn thing. You buy the stuff, you stock the stuff and you warranty it. 100% MINIMUM on normal everyday items.

Gaaahh!!

If you figure out all your overhead costs doesn't that include stocking the parts and warranty?

 

[zappy]

So how do you find that rat for small job?

So how do you find that rat for small job?

Mule I don't wish to offend you ( you seen like a nice enough person) but I think you are getting small jobs and service calls confused. You say that you need to be doing larger jobs and that probably true for the way you wish to run your business.

You can't do service calls the same way that you would do small jobs and make any money. There are just not enough billable hours in service calls to allow for the lower rate. If you bill over 4 hours a day doing service calls you are doing good but you still need to come up with the same money as the contractors doing small jobs and billing for 8 hours.

Small jobs are things like total rewires, kitchen remodels, room additions, service upgrades and even small houses or tenant spaces. Service call are when a customer needs a problem repaired, fixture replaced or fan installed. The rates for service calls are normally at least twice the rate for any type of residential construction project, this is because there will not be 8 billable hours in a day. If it cost the customer $100 ea. to change out light fixtures that's just what it cost, if they want 20 fixtures changed out and there is a flexable schedule then the price can go down.

Service calls are just not an efficient use of man power ( to much travel and down time) and there is nothing that can be done about it. They are convenient for the customer and the customer ends up paying for it. The value of a service call is in meeting the customer's schedule and solving the problem or doing the installed at a time convenient for the customer. You can't calculate this value like you would a construction rate for installing a light fixture. If you have 2 hours invested to do 15 minutes of work then you must be paid for the 2 hours.

You should have two different rates, one to use for small jobs and another for service calls. People will not pay $200 and hour to rewire a house but they will pay $200 for a 30 minute service call if the problem is solved when and how you agreed .

50% of what your rate is for service calls?

 

[satcom]

Remember, when you doing service calls, your truck insurance is 2 to 3 times the cost, that along with less billed hours, requires a higher rate.

My guess is there are some guys that don't know the real cost of operating a service business. or any business for that matter, and whenever some of the guys on here try to help, the less informed give off the wall opinions.

 

[Rich R]

If you figure out all your overhead costs doesn't that include stocking the parts and warranty?

Parts are not part of overhead, Mark up should cover Warranty and stocking expense.

If you include parts in your hourly rate as overhead, your rate will be just as high to the customer that uses $10 in parts as the customer that uses $10,000 in parts. There is alot more warranty problems that can come up in $10,000 in parts. Therefore the more parts they use = the more they pay toward markup

 

[Rich R]

50% of what your rate is for service calls?

Here is an example =

After calculating your cost you find your company needs $5000/week to cover all of its bills

5 Days in a week = $1000/day

Service call billable hours a day = around 6 hrs ( on a good day, no traffic etc.. ) Service call rate would be billed at $166/hour = $1000/day

Remodeling/bigger jobs billable hours a day = 8hrs , rate would be $ 125/hour = $1000/day


You are probably wondering why Joe Blow Electric down the street is only charging $75/hour. This is because Joe Blow is playing games with the numbers,

Maybe he puts in 12 hours a day but only pays himself for 8
Maybe he has no benefits
Maybe he pays his help $5/hour cash
Maybe has a Million dollar contract and does small stuff to fill in
Maybe he Robs his customers for materials cost
Maybe he is a retired City worker that doesn't really need the money

there is alot of maybe's, this is why it is crucial to find YOUR cost of doing business and not follow the idiot down the block with his pricing

 

[wawireguy]

Many pages here but one thing stood out at me.

"as my son-inlaw gets more effecient it will become less of a issue, but he needs to have task in front of him at all times to be of value to the customer........."

You should be able to keep him busy even on small jobs. I've done a lot of service work as a helper. While the customer is walking you around you have him getting the ladders, the drills, the materials. About that time you should be able to lay him out on something. Near the end have him pick up everything, vacuum, finish up while you talk to the customer and do any necesary paper work. If the job is so small two people can't do it then he should be picking up or cleaning while you finish it.