Ask This Old House

[aftershock]

Yes, and you could see that it was a nail-on and where the plastic nail brackets had been cut away.

Why didn't he just use a 3-gang old-work box?

Alot of times if we are installing switch boxes and they are near wall studs, instead of using an old work box, we will cut the nail holders off of a nail on and then secure them to the wall stud with sheetrock screws. To be honest from experiance, this method has proven to be better support than a cut-in/old work box which relies on the sheetrock only, as a support.

Use a 2 gang cut-in/old work box to wire a dryer (10/3 with ground). Hook up your dryer rec and start pushing back to the box so you can secure it. Watch it shove the box through the sheetrock.
Now, cut the nailers off a 2 gang box, secure it to the wall stud and do the same thing in the previous paragraph. The box wont move.

 

[iwire]

secure them to the wall stud with sheetrock screws.

You might find 314.23(1) interesting. :smile:

 

[acrwc10]

Alot of times if we are installing switch boxes and they are near wall studs, instead of using an old work box, we will cut the nail holders off of a nail on and then secure them to the wall stud with sheetrock screws. To be honest from experiance, this method has proven to be better support than a cut-in/old work box which relies on the sheetrock only, as a support.

Use a 2 gang cut-in/old work box to wire a dryer (10/3 with ground). Hook up your dryer rec and start pushing back to the box so you can secure it. Watch it shove the box through the sheetrock.
Now, cut the nailers off a 2 gang box, secure it to the wall stud and do the same thing in the previous paragraph. The box wont move.

It may work well but it is a violation, The use of a "smart box would be a compliant way of securing the box. The issue as I read the code is 2 things , the screw in the box is not protected from the conductors ( or the other way around ) and the box is not made to support from such a small surface area.
I'll keep a handful of "smart boxes on the truck because they come in handy so often, even on new installations before sheet rock.

 

[SEO]

Now, cut the nailers off a 2 gang box, secure it to the wall stud and do the same thing in the previous paragraph. The box wont move.

I agree the box is probably secured well but what about section 314.23 (B) (1) How do you comply?

 

[aftershock]

I agree the box is probably secured well but what about section 314.23 (B) (1) How do you comply?

I understand where you and Iwire are coming from. Although I work for a company that uses bailing wire and cu-tips to build shopping malls (just kidding)

Alot of stuff I have learned was not from code, but from a previous electrician or from being turned down on a rough-in or trim-out.

Technology and new products or code compliant ways of doing things are slow going for the company I work for.

Beleive me, If I know/knew of a code compliant way of "making it happen" , I would be on top of it.

acrwc10 I would like to know more about this "smar box" item.

Iwire I know sheetrock screws are not code compliant to use for support, but just like using a machine screw to ground a box, code says "if it's not green, it's not compliant" even though the material and threads are the same.

I always do my best to push it to code, but as some/most know, in certain situations, common sense and knowledge of safety will tell you it's ok.

 

[acrwc10]

Here is a link for you http://www.smartboxinc.com/Product.htm

I think the process of learning the codes as you get kicked down on inspections is quite common, You are in the right place to have your code knowledge grow at a faster rate then you will imagine.

 

[aftershock]

Here is a link for you http://www.smartboxinc.com/Product.htm

I think the process of learning the codes as you get kicked down on inspections is quite common, You are in the right place to have your code knowledge grow at a faster rate then you will imagine.

Thank you. I looked at the site and examined a picture of the 2 gang box.
What material is that screw made of? What is the difference in using that box and using a standard 2 gang nail on with sheetrock screws? I know that the smart box will recess the screw, but, that screw boss will stick out further than a sheetrock screw alone. Let's say I plug some silicone on a sheetrock screw to insulate it. What would be the difference?

 

[SEO]

I
Beleive me, If I know/knew of a code compliant way of "making it happen" , I would be on top of it.

I always do my best to push it to code, but as some/most know, in certain situations, common sense and knowledge of safety will tell you it's ok.

Common sense and knowledge are very important. Smart boxes are an excellent way to be code complient they are designed to screw thru the side and they come with the screws. By being involved with this forum your alread starting to "make it happen".:smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Alot of stuff I have learned was not from code, but from a previous electrician or from being turned down on a rough-in or trim-out.



Iwire I know sheetrock screws are not code compliant to use for support, but just like using a machine screw to ground a box, code says "if it's not green, it's not compliant" even though the material and threads are the same.

I always do my best to push it to code, but as some/most know, in certain situations, common sense and knowledge of safety will tell you it's ok.

The NEC does not require the box bonding screw (if a screw is used) to be colored green.


Common sense is not necessarily how the NEC has been drafted...common sense means something else from one person to another based on their upbringing.

 

[aftershock]

The NEC does not require the box bonding screw (if a screw is used) to be colored green.


Common sense is not necessarily how the NEC has been drafted...common sense means something else from one person to another based on their upbringing.

The green color must have been from our AHJ. I always thought it was NEC. My bad.
The problem about knowing from local to national in my area is, I cant obtain a complete local code book,, they will only give me amendments to the already local codes. All else has to be learned by being turned down.

 

[yanici]

The show sure has everyone on this post wired.:smile: :smile:

********************************************************
Yeah, it may seem like some may be too critical, but, Jeez, the guy is supposed to be a professional and he just showed, who knows how many million people an improper install. Maybe the show needs a licensed electrician as part of the team. They have a plumber on board. The electrical needs some kind of "check for violation" person before it airs. My 2cents.

 

[SEO]

********************************************************
Yeah, it may seem like some may be too critical, but, Jeez, the guy is supposed to be a professional and he just showed, who knows how many million people an improper install. Maybe the show needs a licensed electrician as part of the team. They have a plumber on board. The electrical needs some kind of "check for violation" person before it airs. My 2cents.

I agree with you IMOP I don't like to see anyone doing electrical work that is not licensed. I meant getting everyone on this post wired as a pun.

 

[electricmanscott]

I saw the show and I made the same comments to my wife which promptly put her to sleep.

Violations, sure but we have all made those same violations at one time or another and speaking for myself, will make them again.

I was more concerned with the guy just tossing his tools and stuff on the counter and the hideous uniform.

 

[electricmanscott]

Maybe the show needs a licensed electrician as part of the team. They have a plumber on board. The electrical needs some kind of "check for violation" person before it airs. My 2cents.

The guy they normally use on their projects......yuck. I'lll leave it at that.

 

[acrwc10]

I saw the show and I made the same comments to my wife which promptly put her to sleep.

Violations, sure but we have all made those same violations at one time or another and speaking for myself, will make them again.
I was more concerned with the guy just tossing his tools and stuff on the counter and the hideous uniform.

The BIG difference being you are not stupid enough to make those mistakes on TV.

 

[BossMan20]

You might find 314.23(1) interesting. :smile:

i see no problem with it.

 

[BossMan20]

has anyone read the 2005 nec handbook and seen what it has to say about screws inside a box? just don't leave any exposed threads inside the box.

 

[iwire]

i see no problem with it.

Bossman in my opinion screws through the side are a direct violation of 314.23(1) unless they are within 1/4" of the ends of the box.

 

[SEO]

Bossman in my opinion screws through the side are a direct violation of 314.23(1) unless they are within 1/4" of the ends of the box.

I agree with iwire.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Not legal but in a jam i might do it