dishwasher means of disc.?

[infinity]

99 code is in force then. now its the 02.

1/8hp or over 300va (correct me if wrong but you would be hard pressed to find a dishwasher under 300va) .

The nameplate on my dishwasher says:

Motor 2.7 amps, 120 volts = 324 VA

 

[Buck Parrish]

yes i am saying that. and why whould you need to take the cover off. can install the typical one pole lockout devise to the face of the breaker. we have them in our shop.

what is the definition of capable? diff then "provide/d"

I think the breaker lockouts that install when the cover is on. Those are for industrial use. Such as if a maintnance man is working on a machine, he can put a temporary lock out on it.

 

[peter d]

Pete, why not just rough in a receptacle and stop being a hack? :grin:

Stop being a hack? That would be impossible.

 

[Polarcat]

so far 1 engineer and one local inspector said he reads it the way i do and 1 (happens to be the one I use most offten said need a switch or recep.


I will conside it is vague at best! however aperently this was an issue that was further defined in 05 code (but we are on 99)

let me throw another iron in the fire all dishwasher specs call out for a specific part number for the cord/cap kit, therfore (IMO) if you make one its not UL listed and prob can affected the listing as an assembly on the unit. I would feel more comfortable in the switch in next base cab.

also how often do you see the recep behind the unit (not accessible)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

let me throw another iron in the fire all dishwasher specs call out for a specific part number for the cord/cap kit, therfore (IMO) if you make one its not UL listed and prob can affected the listing as an assembly on the unit. I would feel more comfortable in the switch in next base cab.

I always install my DW feed to a JB under the sink. I then take a lead from there to the dw. Many of the dw I install today have cord and plug from the factory and call for the outlet to be install in the adjoining cabinet. I then disconnect the wire to the dw and install a recep. If the dw does not come with a cord and plug I simply install the switch and hard wire the dw.

 

[ultramegabob]

I have to be honest, I was totally unaware of this code, and it is absolutely not done in my area..... dishwashers are usually on a dedicated circuit and hardwired into the bottom of the unit.

 

[cpal]

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=624742&postcount=57


Try this link it will give you some info on cords and appliances. The 99 NEC did not require that a breaker used as a disconnect for an appliance to have a means to lock that breaker in place when the lock is not installed. I think it came in the 05. The rec is allowed in the dw cavity or an adjacent cabinet. but your right you have to use the manfactures cord kit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have to be honest, I was totally unaware of this code, and it is absolutely not done in my area..... dishwashers are usually on a dedicated circuit and hardwired into the bottom of the unit.

And I bet no one has died from it , YET...:grin:

 

[stickboy1375]

I have to be honest, I was totally unaware of this code, and it is absolutely not done in my area..... dishwashers are usually on a dedicated circuit and hardwired into the bottom of the unit.

Which could be fine if the following are met...


422.34, Unit switch on dishwasher with a marked-OFF position and disconnects ALL ungrounded conductors.

422.31 (A) DW is not over 300 volt-amperes or 1/8th HP, the OCD shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.

422.32 IF a switch or circuit breaker serves as the disconnecting means for a permanently connected motor-driven appliance of more than 1/8 HP, it shall be located within sight from the motor controller.

 

[brantmacga]

he had another contractor go in and put a cord and plug (behind the unit, voliation in itself, not accessible, have no way on getting in to prove it though) in and looking to take the $ (plus other silly stuff) off the top of my contract .

anyway, any ONE of the disc. means you listed is ok.

That is not a violation. The means of disconnect is allowed to be in the space occupied by the appliance. I mount a recep on the sole plate behind the dishwasher, cord-and-plug connection.

 

[stickboy1375]

That is not a violation. The means of disconnect is allowed to be in the space occupied by the appliance. I mount a recep on the sole plate behind the dishwasher, cord-and-plug connection.

take a look at 422.33 (A)... I find your description not accessible IMO.

 

[frizbeedog]

Uh........No, I'm not down with that.

Uh........No, I'm not down with that.

That is not a violation. The means of disconnect is allowed to be in the space occupied by the appliance. I mount a recep on the sole plate behind the dishwasher, cord-and-plug connection.

...and a review the definition of accessible (as applied to equipment) would help. Once you have to take off a cover plate and reach your hand, arm, under the diswasher to unplug the darn thing you are already in violation of the intent of the NEC. You need to be able to provide a disconnect that is somewhat obvious, but the term they use is accessible. We need to provide a way for someone to shut off the power before they work on the equipment.

Just a thought. :smile:

 

[brantmacga]

take a look at 422.33 (A)... I find your description not accessible IMO.

...and a review the definition of accessible (as applied to equipment) would help. Once you have to take off a cover plate and reach your hand, arm, under the diswasher to unplug the darn thing you are already in violation of the intent of the NEC. You need to be able to provide a disconnect that is somewhat obvious, but the term they use is accessible. We need to provide a way for someone to shut off the power before they work on the equipment.

Just a thought.

422.16(B)(2) Built-In Dishwashers and Trash Compactors.

(4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto.
(5) The receptacle shall be accessible.

Now, lets review article 100.

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Accessible, Readily (Readily accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operatio, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.


Installing the receptacle behind the dishwasher meets code.

 

[stickboy1375]

Installing the receptacle behind the dishwasher meets code.

Your right it does meet code, BUT... it only meets the requirements of 422.16 (2). It HOWEVER does not meet the requirements of 422.33


Your a pretty good man if you can unplug a DW while its in place if the receptacle is behind the DW...

 

[brantmacga]

Your right it does meet code, BUT... it only meets the requirements of 422.16 (2). It HOWEVER does not meet the requirements of 422.33


Your a pretty good man if you can unplug a DW while its in place if the receptacle is behind the DW...

Yes, it does.

422.33 only says accessible, not readily accessible. Same as 422.16. Its legal.

 

[stickboy1375]

Yes, it does.

422.33 only says accessible, not readily accessible. Same as 422.16. Its legal.

I started thinking about a fridge, and I have to agree with you....

 

[brantmacga]

I started thinking about a fridge, and I have to agree with you....

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Accessible, Readily (Readily accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operatio, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.


If 422.33 said "Readily Accessible" I'd agree with you, but it doesn't. The dishwasher is not part of the structure or finish.



Edit: Did you edit? Must have changed just as I was hitting the quote button. I'm glad you see it my way.

 

[frizbeedog]

That's all well and good, but...

That's all well and good, but...

Now, lets review article 100.

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Accessible, Readily (Readily accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operatio, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.


Installing the receptacle behind the dishwasher meets code.

I think if you have to take apart the equipment itself it falls under or other effective means

I don't think readily was an issue but I think remove obstacles is interesting.

 

[stickboy1375]

Edit: Did you edit? Must have changed just as I was hitting the quote button. I'm glad you see it my way.

I did edit, sorry bout that...

 

[brantmacga]

You're not taking the equipment apart. You slide it out, then unplug. The appliance wasn't put in place to keep someone from accessing the receptacle.

Neither 422.16 or 422.33 say "readily accessible".