Grounding a mast

[renosteinke]

My reference to a requirement for a disconnect at the meter was inspired by the variety of places that required it.

Ironically, you Yankees are bashing the wrong part of the country. The idea of requiring an outdoor disconnect is fairly new to the South, and I think got started out California way. I brought it with me from Reno. Silly Easterners ...

When you're replacing a service that was old when Eisenhower was President, it's worth checking to see what requirements have been added since then.

The idea behind the requirement is two-fold. The first is for the convenience of the fire department; for some reason they prefer the power off when they're spraying water. The other are the rather liberal understanding of the phrase 'nearest the point of entry.'

Note that Chicago - where I learned the trade - places all manner of restrictions on the unfused wires: must be in pipe, less than 6-ft. long, wall must be masonry, etc. I don't think Chicago qualifies as "southern," not even the South Side. So, this is an area where the paranoid assume there are local ammendments.

Cost? I can get a 100-amp Square-D "all in one" for less than $50. Meter, disconnect, and ten breaker spaces, all in one box. How does that compare with meter socket prices? What's another $10 on a $1000 job? 1%? Ditto for the cost of pipe, etc.; by the time you wiggle the wire all over the place, you've spent more than a steel pipe would have cost.

Things cost what they cost. It matters not whether you're prince or pauper.

 

[jap]

It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes.

Maybe you dont realize how common outdoor sockets with outdoor disconnect really are down here nor how many southern installations use pipe now instead of cable.

 

[jim dungar]

Ironically, you Yankees are bashing the wrong part of the country.

I am not a Yankee.
I did not use the term South nor Southerner.
I was thinking of electricians from large residential areas in areas like Arizona, California, and Florida as opposed to those from northern (i.e. cold & snow) non-metropolitan locales.

 

[jap]

It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes.

Hmmm,,, you didnt ??

 

[jap]

Seems to me you did.


Probably the most bold 2 sentence comment I've seen made (Especially coming from a Moderator) considering the company your in.

 

[ActionDave]

Settle down. I live in SW Colorado and do work in AZ and NM too. I rarely see any SEU, and rarely see a house without an outdoor disco unless it is an sixty year old install. It is just the way things are done because of POCO rules and local customs.

I'm sure this is what Jim is talking about.

 

[K8MHZ]

Seems to me you did.


Probably the most bold 2 sentence comment I've seen made (Especially coming from a Moderator) considering the company your in.

I wouldn't take it personal, pretty much everything is south of Wisconsin. :roll:

 

[jap]

Well then maybe he ought to explain it himself, seeing as how I dont understand how cold or hot temperature has anything to do with what we're talking about.

 

[jim dungar]

Hmmm,,, you didnt ??

Most dictionaries differentiate between the capitalized and non-capitialized versions of nouns.

According to Merriam Webster, the small letter refers to a general direction, while the capital letter refers to a specific region.

"Definition of SOUTH
1

a : the direction of the south terrestrial pole : the direction to the right of one facing east
​

b : the compass point directly opposite to north
​

2

capitalized : regions or countries lying to the south of a specified or implied point of orientation; especially : the southeastern part of the United States "
​

 

[iwire]

Seems to me you did.


Probably the most bold 2 sentence comment I've seen made (Especially coming from a Moderator) considering the company your in.

Seems to me you are overreacting.

Read exactly what Jim said.

If we want to be overly sensitive jap is a derogatory term to many.

 

[jap]

Settle down. I live in SW Colorado and do work in AZ and NM too. I rarely see any SEU, and rarely see a house without an outdoor disco unless it is an sixty year old install. It is just the way things are done because of POCO rules and local customs.

I'm sure this is what Jim is talking about.

No, he implied the exact opposite, that an outside disconnect was not always required (which in some cases it may not be) and that for some reason some thought that "Cable" was not allowed, (which it may still be allowed depending on where your at).

but the response made it sound like we in the South, installed things just because we liked them or that's what we did on the last project so thats what we do all the time.

Which is not the case.

You find out what is required in a particular area before you start and install it that way.

And if you dont know how common outdoor sockets with indoor disconnects are you havent been around much.

JAP>

 

[jap]

Most dictionaries differentiate between the capitalized and non-capitialized versions of nouns.

According to Merriam Webster, the small letter refers to a general direction, while the capital letter refers to a specific region.

"Definition of SOUTH
1

a : the direction of the south terrestrial pole : the direction to the right of one facing east
​

b : the compass point directly opposite to north
​

2

capitalized : regions or countries lying to the south of a specified or implied point of orientation; especially : the southeastern part of the United States "
​

Thanks for that, I guess if we get technical about it none of us actually said anything.

 

[jap]

Seems to me you are overreacting.

Read exactly what Jim said.

If we want to be overly sensitive jap is a derogatory term to many.

I guess it could be,,, or it could just be someones initials.

 

[jap]

I wouldn't take it personal, pretty much everything is south of Wisconsin. :roll:

That's funny right there.....

 

[iwire]

or it could just be someones initials.

Exactly my point.

Rock on.

 

[jap]

I just feel the response was worded all wrong, regardless of the punctuation.

JAP>

 

[jim dungar]

No, he implied the exact opposite, that an outside disconnect was not always required (which in some cases it may not be) and that for some reason some thought that "Cable" was not allowed, (which it may still be allowed depending on where your at).

In non-metropolitan areas of Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin (the areas I am licensed in) it is rare to find a '1-2 family' residence with an outside disconnect. I would not be surprised if 'outside disconnects' comprised <5% of new R-1,2 construction. Often multi-story homes do not require masts, so cable is still common however, a large percentage of new construction is underground.

 

[jap]

In non-metropolitan areas of Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin (the areas I am licensed in) it is rare to find a '1-2 family' residence with an outside disconnect. I would not be surprised if 'outside disconnects' comprised <5% of new R-1,2 construction. Often multi-story homes do not require masts, so cable is still common however, a large percentage of new construction is underground.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with all of this.


My question is when you talk about

"electricians from the south" or , I guess "they" don't realize,

Who exactly are you talking about?

 

[jap]

Per your quote,
"It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes. "


Because as far as I'm concerned,

I dont think everyone likes to have a disconnect, nor, do i think everyone is required to have a disconnect outside with the meter.
and yes I do realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how many northern residential installations use cabe instead of pipes but that really does'nt matter much to me.

What rubbed me wrong was I didnt feel it was up to you to express what I think or dont think, since I seem to fall into the territory of "electricians in the south" your talking about, when actually I dont think that way at all.

 

[jim dungar]

My question is when you talk about

"electricians from the south" or , I guess "they" don't realize,

Who exactly are you talking about?

As I explained in post #23.

I was thinking of electricians from large residential areas in areas like Arizona, California, and Florida as opposed to those from northern (i.e. cold & snow) non-metropolitan locales.