jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I know for certain that I wouldn't buy anything called an inverter that clearly did not contain an inverter.
Is this safe or legal? (Safety experts will love this)
- Thread starter mbrooke
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
So all of your MWBCs have only two wires, right?
I am retired, but Yes if I did install one it would have 2 legs or lines and a neutral.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
So you pay $268.00 for this "thing" and another $18.00 shipping and what have you got?
You get a couple of extension cords, a Carlon box and a 50 AMP receptacle. Now if you have a piece of equipment with a 50 AMP plug on it there is normally a reason ( you may need more than 30 AMPS). With this contraption you get at most 20 AMPS.
If you are running a 240 volt saw it probably has a 20-30 AMP plug.
A car charger 30 AMP plug.
Right off people are going to need another adapter just to plug their equipment into this thing.
Anyone ever seen a pressure washer with a 50 AMP plug on it (maybe but it's not normal).
This thing isn't unsafe until people start to use it and then they will have to make adapters or change out the receptacle and if they knew how to do that they wouldn't spend $268.00 for this thing in the first place.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I guess I didn't think of sustain as having more then one definition, my bad there, maybe, so I guess replace sustain in my statement there with maintain and hopefully that gets what I meant to say across. GD otherwise explained it in further detail.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I have to say I've seen a lot of things with 50 amp plug on them, that did not require a 50 amp circuit. But outside of some welders not one of them ever came from the manufacturer with a cord cap either from what I can recall.
Rampage_Rick
Senior Member
- Location
- British Columbia, Canada
These are often referred to as a "Quick 220" and are occasionally used by EV drivers. Assuming there are some proper relays the hot male plug shouldn't be an issue. Everything else is dependant on the particular outlets used. Two outlets on the same phase will give you 0 volts, and any GFCI will trip, but otherwise they should work in theory.
Here's a couple different suggested wiring methods:
Here's a couple different suggested wiring methods:
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
does anybody think there is a problem with the paralleling of the neutrals that this thing will create? I'm sure they connected the neutrals from each cord together on the 50 amp receptacle.
So please tell me that this contraption is UL listed??? I very much doubt it, it has so many code violations all over it that UL would just :lol:
So please tell me that this contraption is UL listed??? I very much doubt it, it has so many code violations all over it that UL would just :lol:
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I am sure the yellow cords have UL stickers on them. That takes care of the whole thing, right? :angel:
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
And the box is, the receptacle is, even the pilot light and push button most likely UL listed, but not put together like this:happysad:
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Steambrite has a lousy product for sale
Sometimes all that needs to be worried about is getting something to work so that the job can get done or buying some time to get through the night when a proper solution can be worked out, rule books make no matter. I'm okay with that.
When you package that solution and sell it to anybody with a credit card, I'm out.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
The receptacle in the OP doesn't have a neutral terminal, had it been a 14-50 instead of a 6-50 receptacle that would be a bigger concern. Otherwise don't connect the neutrals in the two supply cords together and you do not create any neutral issues. Not trying to make excuses to encourage the use of this product - just telling you what I see.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
You are not going to find a UL sticker on something like this. It looks like it was assembled in someone's garage or basement and the cost for testing and listing would be more than they would make on an item like this ( not mass produced ).
Kwired pointed out that the neutrals are not used but can you even run the differrent phases of a 240V circuit in different cable assemblies?
I would "assume" that this product is not manufactured in the US but some other country and would be shipped to you as a "use at your own risk" type of deal.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
You eliminate the neutral from an existing circuit from being introduced to another circuit, you don't need a neutral for the load you are trying to supply, so you resolve one possible problem by not connecting the neutrals in the supply cords together, there are still other problems introduced by such a contraption.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
I say unsafe and not code compliant.
Branch Circuit, Multiwire. A branch circuit that consists
of two or more ungrounded conductors that have a voltage
between them, and a grounded conductor that has equal
voltage between it and each ungrounded conductor of the
circuit and that is connected to the neutral or grounded
conductor of the system.
210.4 Multiwire Branch Circuits.
(A) General. Branch circuits recognized by this article shall
be permitted as multiwire circuits. A multiwire circuit shall be
permitted to be considered as multiple circuits. All conductors
of a multiwire branch circuit shall originate from the same
panelboard or similar distribution equipment.
(B) Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit
shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously
disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where
the branch circuit originates.
Curious nerd
Member
- Location
- Washington State, USA
I am sorry to be thick here, but aren't you stuck with neutral problems even if the neutrals are separated? Isn't current going directly from one hot leg to the other instead of back through the neutral(s), making GFCIs trip?
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
:lol: Close, they got this, it takes the cake
:http://www.evseadapters.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=61
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Very good, now how many permits do you get to look at such a device, or much of anything that plugs in but nothing else is associated with the permit? I think the bigger question here is is it safe. It could be argued the branch circuit(s) end at the outlet (receptacle) and NEC doesn't apply to what is plugged in. What maybe could be argued is the appliance supplied by the 240 volt receptacle isn't fed with code compliant branch circuit wiring/methods, and come up with multiple things from that perspective that are in violation.
If you are powering a straight 240 volt load you don't need a neutral at all to make that load work, so why should you have a problem with the neutral itself as long as you don't tie the two together from the supply cords making a possible alternate path for the premises wiring neutral(s)?
Again I am not condoning the use of the device in the OP, just simply stating there is no need for it to introduce problems with the neutral.
- Status