NEVER found problem??

[brother]

Im just curious, seeing how there are VERY knowledgeable and talented people here . Im curious have you ever had a problem that you NEVER actually solved/found out why electrically.?? Let me elaborate a little.

I was just thinking about a scenerio that i heard about at a big manufacturer where a worker was 'electricuted' at their metal work bench. I know the contractors claimed they never actually FOUND the short to ground or any other problem electrically.

So the manufacturer just had them go head and REWIRE the whole work area and the 'problem' never happen again. But they claim they NEVER actually found the problem.

So have any of you ever have one of these scenerios? By going ahead and replacing EVERYTHING and then you know you got problem fixed??

 

[mdshunk]

So have any of you ever have one of these scenerios? By going ahead and replacing EVERYTHING and then you know you got problem fixed??

That's just goofy.

Every problem can be found. If you can't find the problem, whatever it might be, you just don't own the right test equipment yet. I have had problems that have eluded me, but I was also aware of the equipment needed to find that problem, and I didn't own it. I subbed those things out to people who did. The last one was an audio hum at a church as one for instance.

 

[480sparky]

I been on plenty of service calls that turned out to be wild goose chases. The problem reported never appeared for me, and I never found anything that could cause it.

I also have chased similar gremlins and located problems, but could not actually verify what I fixed was indeed the problem. Case in point, got called to an apartment building. Manager said one (empty) unit had intermittent power. I probably could have found the problem with a great degree of confidence, but upon arriving, I found the poco had turned off the juice to that unit.

So I opened up the panel and found some loose connections, which I resolved. But it took another 2 days to restore power. I assume I solved the problem because I never got another call about it.

I have no doubt there's many stories out there that ultimately end up being caused by 'you built this place on an ancient Indian burial ground....."

 

[charlie b]

I have encountered "ghost problems," things that show themselves from time to time, and that never stick around long enough for you to figure out their causes. There are some for which I never learned the solutions. The problem with saying that "I have solved the problem," is that the problem may yet return, unless and until you find its cause and have fixed that cause.

 

[360Youth]

There is no simple answer. I agree with Marc to the degree that any existing problems can be found and fixed. But there are those service calls that we have all been on that you may never find if the cause never returns (HO has unplugged something that they did not realize was causing a problem, etc.) We have "fixed" many problems never knowing exactly what it was we fixed. Once again, it all depends on how much the symptom is present while you are there.

 

[jerm]

I think most, of not all of the ghost problems we've seen turned out to be intermittent neutral connections.

 

[mdshunk]

FYI... Three tools that are helpful in locating many types of intermittant problems:
1) Megger
2) DLRO
3) Load Bank

 

[Energy-Miser]

I had a service call on a set of HID parking lot lights. The circuit breaker they said would trip a couple of hours after the lights came on after dark. I covered the photo cell, measured the amprege at the panel with a clamp on, which read well below 20 amps, no fluctuations, or creeping up of the current, the circuit breaker held while I was still there. Did not know what to think, but that maybe one of the fixtures were aged, and would draw more later after it really heated up. I suppose I could have fused each light post separately to catch the culprit, but neither me, nor the client were willing to invest much more time and effort in it, and we left it at that. Not a good feeling! e/m.

 

[480sparky]

On the flip side of this story is the fastest service call in history.

I got called to a rental outfit (RSC) to investigate 'an electrical sound.' Now, I had never heard 'an electrical sound' before, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

Upon arriving, the manager told me he could hear what he described as, "You know that buzzing sound a breaker makes when a big motor starts up? Kinda sounds like that, but it's in this office...."

So he lets me in and says he'll be out in the shop. After standing there for 10 seconds, I do hear this mysterious 'electrical sound' right away. I walk over to the other side of the room and immediately locate the problem.

I take the offending piece of apparatus out to the manager in the shop, who asks me if I found anything. I say, "Yes, your pager is set to 'vibrate' and you got a page this morning at 8:37."

 

[brother]

FYI... Three tools that are helpful in locating many types of intermittant problems:
1) Megger
2) DLRO
3) Load Bank

oK I know what a Megger is, but what is a DLRO ??

 

[480sparky]

I had a service call on a set of HID parking lot lights. The circuit breaker they said would trip a couple of hours after the lights came on after dark. I covered the photo cell, measured the amprege at the panel with a clamp on, which read well below 20 amps, no fluctuations, or creeping up of the current, the circuit breaker held while I was still there. Did not know what to think, but that maybe one of the fixtures were aged, and would draw more later after it really heated up. I suppose I could have fused each light post separately to catch the culprit, but neither me, nor the client were willing to invest much more time and effort in it, and we left it at that. Not a good feeling! e/m.

I've had the exact same experience. Lot lights would stay on for 5-6 hours, then trip the breaker. Took two of us to trace down a short between a split-bolt and the pole in a hand-hole. over the years, the connections had rubbed against the inside of the pole enough to make intermittent contact. So we retaped all the connections in all the poles.

 

[360Youth]

FYI... Three tools that are helpful in locating many types of intermittant problems:
1) Megger
2) DLRO
3) Load Bank

Do you have many customers that are willing to invest in that kind of troubleshooting. We usually give an HO, municipality, or local utility the option of some extensive "digging." But not too many of them want to spend the kind of moola it takes to find out why their lights are flickering. I agree that you shouldn't wait until it becomes a larger problem, larger fix, and worse, a larger safety issue, but you still have to convince them of that, especially if it is not showing itself while you are there.

 

[480sparky]

oK I know what a Megger is, but what is a DLRO ??

Digital Low Resistance Ohmmeter?

 

[Energy-Miser]

On the flip side of this story is the fastest service call in history.

I got called to a rental outfit (RSC) to investigate 'an electrical sound.' Now, I had never heard 'an electrical sound' before, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

Upon arriving, the manager told me he could hear what he described as, "You know that buzzing sound a breaker makes when a big motor starts up? Kinda sounds like that, but it's in this office...."

So he lets me in and says he'll be out in the shop. After standing there for 10 seconds, I do hear this mysterious 'electrical sound' right away. I walk over to the other side of the room and immediately locate the problem.

I take the offending piece of apparatus out to the manager in the shop, who asks me if I found anything. I say, "Yes, your pager is set to 'vibrate' and you got a page this morning at 8:37."

I did a faster one. I repaired an "out of power outlet" by turning a switch on! But I must admit, your story is more interesting.

 

[480sparky]

I did a faster one. I repaired an "out of power outlet" by turning a switch on! But I must admit, your story is more interesting.

Or else press the 'reset' button on a GFI recep somewhere! :grin:

 

[Energy-Miser]

I've had the exact same experience. Lot lights would stay on for 5-6 hours, then trip the breaker. Took two of us to trace down a short between a split-bolt and the pole in a hand-hole. over the years, the connections had rubbed against the inside of the pole enough to make intermittent contact. So we retaped all the connections in all the poles.

Lucky for you the problem was above ground. Most times with these types of lights the underground splices have gone bad, or a landscaper has covered his track by wirenutting what he'd hit, etc. and finding and repairing these hack jobs take for ever. Outdoor lights are one of my least favorate service calls, unless maybe just relamping.

 

[360Youth]

Or else press the 'reset' button on a GFI recep somewhere! :grin:

Problem is it takes 20 minutes to find the GFI buried in the garage somewhere or a receptacle outside.

 

[480sparky]

Problem is it takes 20 minutes to find the GFI buried in the garage somewhere or a receptacle outside.

How about behind the towel hanging on a towel bar? My favorite was the one behind the wall-mounted mirror!

 

[mdshunk]

Do you have many customers that are willing to invest in that kind of troubleshooting.

The short answer is 'Yes'. Intermittant problems buck the heck out of people.

 

[360Youth]

How about behind the towel hanging on a towel bar? My favorite was the one behind the wall-mounted mirror!

Makes you wonder if installers find some way to that stuff on purpose.

The short answer is 'Yes'. Intermittant problems buck the heck out of people.

Recurring problems, I can see.