Outlets above suspended ceiling.

[mfbettwy]

is it permissable to install a 120v /20amp duplex receptacle above a suspended ceiling. this outlet would serve a plug in power supply for a CCTV camera/

 

[raider1]

Yes, you can install a receptacle above a suspended ceiling. You just can plug a cord into it.

(See 400.8(5))

Chris

 

[Dennis Alwon]

is it permissable to install a 120v /20amp duplex receptacle above a suspended ceiling. this outlet would serve a plug in power supply for a CCTV camera/

What Chris is saying is that rubber cord is not permited above a suspended ceiling. The outlet is okay. You could plug things in but they cannot be rubber cord products.

 

[raider1]

Yeah, what Dennis said.

Chris

 

[cowboyjwc]

I agree with both.

 

[electricmanscott]

Install the recptacle. Whatever someone does with it is not your problem. :wink:

 

[MAK]

I ran into something similar with a camera installation at a school. The head of maintenance directed us to mount equipment above a drop tile ceiling and he would have his electrician install an outlet above the ceiling for us to connect our power supply and line cord for an LCD monitor. I had mentioned to him that I did not think that you could mount the equipment above the drop tile but had no idea what the code reference would have been.:-? If it were just a plugin transformer (class 2 24vac 40va) would there be a problem with that?

 

[Energize]

I ran into something similar with a camera installation at a school. The head of maintenance directed us to mount equipment above a drop tile ceiling and he would have his electrician install an outlet above the ceiling for us to connect our power supply and line cord for an LCD monitor. I had mentioned to him that I did not think that you could mount the equipment above the drop tile but had no idea what the code reference would have been.:-? If it were just a plugin transformer (class 2 24vac 40va) would there be a problem with that?

Article 400.8 Uses Not Permitted

Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(5) Were concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings.


Not sure where they are getting the information that only rubber cords are not permitted. I see nothing to indicate the compound of the insulation dictates compliance. It just states "flexible cords and cables".



edited for spelling and grammar.

 

[iwire]

Not sure where they are getting the information that only rubber cords are not permitted. I see nothing to indicate the compound of the insulation dictates compliance. It just states "flexible cords and cables".

Article 400 only applies to cords and cables listed in table 400.4

It does not apply to cords and cables not listed in T-400.4

 

[volt102]

Even if it is rubber cord.

400.7 Uses Permitted
(A) Uses Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for the following:

(6)Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange

(8)Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

400.8 Uses Not Permitted
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(5)Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above
suspended or dropped ceilings

Since frequent interchange in specifically permitted by 400.7, especially considering that many security cameras are moved around all the time so no one can figure out which ones are the dummies. I understand that this may not apply to the OP, as it has many variables. I just wanted to point the fact that we may install a receptacle above a ceiling and plug something in it....

The same can be true for installing the condensate pump next to an air handler unit. A Receptacle installed above a drop ceiling and a cord and plug "Little Green Giant" may all be installed above the suspended ceiling, because it is also on the permitted list specifically permitted by 400.7(8) for maintenance...

 

[cschmid]

dang it type in response and boom get blank page and info gone..like volt102 pointed out..unless specifically permitted..Appliances include TV monitors, programmable LED signs, video cameras and much more..I have installed outlet above suspended ceiling for the above uses..when installed above the suspended ceiling it normally deters the general population from tampering with the cord connection..but do not use an extension cord to connect appliance you must install it close enough to use factory cord..

 

[raider1]

Even if it is rubber cord.



Since frequent interchange in specifically permitted by 400.7, especially considering that many security cameras are moved around all the time so no one can figure out which ones are the dummies. I understand that this may not apply to the OP, as it has many variables. I just wanted to point the fact that we may install a receptacle above a ceiling and plug something in it....

The same can be true for installing the condensate pump next to an air handler unit. A Receptacle installed above a drop ceiling and a cord and plug "Little Green Giant" may all be installed above the suspended ceiling, because it is also on the permitted list specifically permitted by 400.7(8) for maintenance...

Due to the fact that 400.8(5) does not permit flexible cord to be installed above a suspended ceiling, utilization equipment with flexible cords, that requires frequent interchange, could not be installed above a suspended ceiling.

400.7(A)(6) does not, IMO, allow you to install a flexible cord above a suspended ceiling.

Chris

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

A Receptacle installed above a drop ceiling and a cord and plug "Little Green Giant" may all be installed above the suspended ceiling, because it is also on the permitted list specifically permitted by 400.7(8) for maintenance...

You're mixing up your trade names.

It's either The Jolly Green Giant...

OR

"Little Giant"

But NOT "Little Green Giant" :grin:

 

[M. D.]

I agree with Chris ,.. This is a link to a good article on the subject
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_cords_fixture_wires/

 

[220/221]

Sounds to me that if it's an "appliance" designed to be cord connected it is legal.

Hmmmm...define appliance.

Dictionary says: ""an instrument or device designed for a particular use or function ""

Sounds like anything with a cord can be plugged in.

 

[220/221]

400.7(A)(6) does not, IMO, allow you to install a flexible cord above a suspended ceiling.

Not trying to be argumentitive but can you support your opinion?


If I am quoting it correctly, 400.7 (A)(6) under "uses permitted" says:......

appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

To me it says, if you can take out a couple screws and unplug it, it's OK.

 

[jim dungar]

From what I have read in this forum, the basic argument is:

400.7 does not specifically allow any of the items to be above a suspended ceiling?

 

[petersonra]

From what I have read in this forum, the basic argument is:

400.7 does not specifically allow any of the items to be above a suspended ceiling?

I don't see how you get around the prohibition against it being above the suspended ceiling. Its an incredibly dumb rule on the face of it, but it is the rule. Seems to me someone makes a plug that fits on the end of a piece of 3/8 FMC that could plug into an outlet.

 

[220/221]

From what I have read in this forum, the basic argument is:

400.7 does not specifically allow any of the items to be above a suspended ceiling?

I still dont get it. The first words are "Uses permitted".

Doesn't that allow it?

400.7 Uses Permitted
(A) Uses Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for the following:

(6)Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange

(8)Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

The emergency light in the diagram is different because the cord passes thru the ceiling which I would assume is a different violation.


Edit...now I understand. You are saying that 400.7 does not apply to above the ceiling...gotcha....I think

 

[M. D.]

400.7 allows cords to be used for certain things and reasons ,.. and 400.8(5) excludes them from being used above suspended or dropped ceilings regardless the reason. ,.. Now if 400.7 had an (11) and it said "for the connection of condensation equipment associated with HVAC equipment located above a dropped or suspended ceiling" ,..then it would be specifically permitted in 400.7 for such an application ,it does not however .In fact nothing in 400.7 specifically permits the use of a flexible cord above a dropped or suspended ceiling... IMO of course.