Outlets above suspended ceiling.

[M. D.]

Another image from the link I posted

 

[220/221]

400.8(5) excludes them from being used above suspended or dropped ceilings regardless the reason. ,..

Heh heh...no.

It doen't say "regardless of the reason" it says "Unless specifically permitted in 400.7" which it is...

Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

Again...not tryin to be difficult, only to learn. Sometimes I get something stuck in my head and I miss the obvious.



edit. I can't tell what is plugged in (in the image). I think it matters.

 

[raider1]

Heh heh...no.

It doen't say "regardless of the reason" it says "Unless specifically permitted in 400.7" which it is...



Again...not tryin to be difficult, only to learn. Sometimes I get something stuck in my head and I miss the obvious.



edit. I can't tell what is plugged in (in the image). I think it matters.

Show me where in 400.7 it specifically permits a flexible cord on an appliance to be installed above a suspended ceiling.

Remember that 400.8 says "specifically permitted" the general permission for the use of flexible cord in 400.7(A)(6) does not specifically state it is permitted above the suspended ceiling.

Chris

 

[M. D.]

Quote:
Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

I still don't see any thing about dropped or suspended ceilings ?? I was taught 400.8 modifies 400.7

So IYO would it be O.K. to run the cord through a hole in the ceiling ?? or through a doorway as long as it were to serve ;

Quote:
Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

 

[M. D.]

edit. I can't tell what is plugged in (in the image). I think it matters.

a flexible cord ,...and that is all that matters as that is the subject of article

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It doen't say "regardless of the reason" it says "Unless specifically permitted in 400.7" which it is...

The point has been made and I will reiterrate it. 400.7 does permit use of cord for utilization equip to facilitate frequent interchange but it does not allow the cord to be in the ceiling. 400.7 (6) is a general statement but 400.8(5) states not above the ceiling. So yes you can use cord & plug but not above the ceiling.

The fact is there are probably very few inspectors that would even catch it. I am not trying to demean inspectors but most electricians don't even know that rule.

 

[220/221]

Show me where in 400.7 it specifically permits a flexible cord on an appliance to be installed above a suspended ceiling.

It's not in 400.7.

400.8 shows it's allowed above the ceiling (because it's specifically permited in 400.7)

400.7 Uses Permitted
(A) Uses Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for the following:

(6)Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange

(8)Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections
are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and
repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord
connection

400.8 Uses Not Permitted
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:

(5)Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above
suspended or dropped ceilings

This is like "you can't put too much water on a nuclear reactor" things. It is clear to me and it is clear to you but we are both somehow seeing it differently.

 

[petersonra]

400.7 Uses Permitted.
(A) Uses. Flexible cords and cables shall be used only for
the following:
...
(2) Wiring of luminaires (fixtures)
...
400.8 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted
in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the
following:
...
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located
above suspended or dropped ceilings
...

Does this not strongly suggest that one could wire drop in light fixtures with cord in drop ceilings?

 

[M. D.]

Does this not strongly suggest that one could wire drop in light fixtures with cord in drop ceilings?

only if 400.7 spcifically allows it above the dropped or suspended ceiling ,..and it does not .

 

[volt101]

No, see 410.30(C)

 

[220/221]

So IYO would it be O.K. to run the cord through a hole in the ceiling ?? or through a doorway as long as it were to serve ;

No....but I think that's another issue.

 

[M. D.]

No....but I think that's another issue.

The argument is exactly the same however.

How you would explain this ??

600.21 Ballasts, Transformers, and Electronic Power Supplies

(F) Suspended Ceilings. Ballasts, transformers, and electronic power supplies are permitted to be located above suspended ceilings, provided their enclosures are securely fastened in place and not dependent on the suspended ceiling grid for support. Ballasts, transformers, and electronic power supplies installed in suspended ceilings cannot be connected to the branch circuit by flexible cord.​

 

[220/221]

How you would explain this ??

I am having a hard enough time focusing on the original post. Don't get chasing after something else.:smile:


And looking ONLY at 400.7 and 400.8, I still say it is OK.


If one section says yes and the other says no....which is right?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I am having a hard enough time focusing on the original post. Don't get chasing after something else.:smile:


And looking ONLY at 400.7 and 400.8, I still say it is OK.


If one section says yes and the other says no....which is right?

One section says okay but has nothing to do with above a hung ceiling. It is okay in situations not prohibited by 400.8.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

And looking ONLY at 400.7 and 400.8, I still say it is OK.

If one section says yes and the other says no....which is right?

In order to satisfy the "specifically permitted" part of 400.8, the words "above ceilings" would have to appear in 400.7. There are general permissions in 400.7, but there is not a "specific permission" to install a code above a ceiling.
Don http://forums.mikeholt.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=749193

 

[220/221]

In order to satisfy the "specifically permitted" part of 400.8, the words "above ceilings" would have to appear in 400.7.

There are general permissions in 400.7, but there is not a "specific permission" to install a code above a ceiling.

There is not specific permission regarding ANYTHING above a ceiling in 400.7so the first line of 400.8 is irrelevant? Why did they put it there?

 

[raider1]

There is not specific permission regarding ANYTHING above a ceiling in 400.7

Correct, so installing flexible cord above a suspended ceiling is a violation of 400.8(5)

so the first line of 400.8 is irrelevant?

The first line of 400.8 is not relevant to the question at hand because there is no specific allowance in 400.7 for the use of flexible cord above suspended ceilings.

Chris

 

[220/221]

Agggggghh



Please! Help me understand....and make it simple. Answer just one question for me to help me understand.

There is NOTHING in 7 that refers to ceilings so what is 8 referring to?


I feel like your avatar but there is a solid surface under my head.

 

[roger]

There is NOTHING in 7 that refers to ceilings so what is 8 referring to?

Exactly, there is NOTHING in 7 that allows flexible cords above ceilings so it is not allowed.

Cords are specifically allowed for the line items in 7 if they are not above ceilings or the other line items 8, it seems clear to me.


Roger

 

[220/221]

Simple question.

What is 400.8 Unless specifically permitted in 400.7 referring to....anybody?