Outlets above suspended ceiling.

[cschmid]

No one here see an issue that is going on regularly..So what do you think the solution should be..I believe it should be that the manufacturer should have there equipment with fixture whips instead of cords..or have the code worded to allow CCTV and other such items to be cord connected..Maybe we can come up with a meaningful proposal here..

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In order for a flexible cord to deteriorate like that it would have to be a permanent installation because of the time it takes to deteriorate..CCTV's are not permanent installations..so why is it okay to run a drill from outlets in a recessed ceiling but not okay to run a CCTV..neither are permanent installations and both require frequent servicing..

What is your determining factor to say the CCTV camera installations are not permanent?
The drill is used for work and then unplugged. Are you saying that the cameras are installed just for a days work and then unplugged?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

No one here see an issue that is going on regularly..So what do you think the solution should be..I believe it should be that the manufacturer should have there equipment with fixture whips instead of cords..or have the code worded to allow CCTV and other such items to be cord connected..Maybe we can come up with a meaningful proposal here..

Some do, you would have to order it that way. I know that most cameras and HVAC equipment is purchased by other than electricians. The issue should probably be dealt with through the purchaser.

 

[iwire]

In order for a flexible cord to deteriorate like that it would have to be a permanent installation because of the time it takes to deteriorate..CCTV's are not permanent installations....

For that matter nothing is permanent. :smile:

But it is my opinion that once you secure something (like a Camera, monitor or vid projector) to the building it is much less temporary then a drill.

 

[220/221]

..So what do you think the solution should be

Simple. Allow equipment to be plugged in.

 

[cschmid]

I guess since we are on this subject I want to learn something..I have found the camera's we have looked at are all cord connected..So How do you guys deal with this..I am not trying to be against the code I just want to understand and find how to do it correctly if I am doing it wrong..

 

[roger]

Well per 400.8 it is wrong.

You could mount the receptacle flush and plug it in below the ceiling or use a whip.

Roger

 

[cschmid]

http://www.jsbsurveillance.com/

http://www.ezwatchstore.com/

http://www.all-cctv.com/power_supplies.htm

these are few of cameras I do not see how you can get away with out some sort of cord in the suspended ceiling..There are several hundred different types but you get the point..no one puts the power connection point under the suspended ceiling..

 

[roger]

Our security division will not use cameras that will not meet a code compliant installation.

We use cameras that utilize 24 v power supplies, wiring methods, and cables approved for the application, (as in Plenum rated or what have you) so a camera that can not be installed per applicable codes is not an exception to a proper installation.

I guarantee a manufacturer will have a code compliant solution if they are about to loose a large sale.

Roger

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The power supply shown in the all-cctv.com link is permissable, even plugged in within the ceiling.
Power cords are not permitted.

I inspect a lot of the CCTV and other instances where the installation is within drop ceilings, either of two installs occur.
1. the install is code compliant based on Art 400, or
2. they are changing the original install to make it code compliant. I have yet had a contractor not be able to find a way to make it work.

 

[cschmid]

The power supply shown in the all-cctv.com link is permissable, even plugged in within the ceiling.
Power cords are not permitted.

LMAO

Them are what I am using for our cameras and video display screens..gotta run but will be back..Thank you I have learned something

 

[M. D.]

No concern if this space is a plenum??

 

[realolman]

Could you have cord connected equip. in a smoked or mirrored bubble hanging below the suspended ceiling?

 

[220/221]

We use cameras that utilize 24 v power supplies, wiring methods, and cables approved for the application, (as in Plenum rated or what have you) so a camera that can not be installed per applicable codes is not an exception to a proper installation.

Apparently you can't plug the transformers in either....right?

 

[raider1]

Apparently you can't plug the transformers in either....right?

Are the transformers connected to flexible cord?

The prohibition is for flexible cord installed above a suspended ceiling, not LV transformers, unless they are connected to flexible cord.

Chris

 

[roger]

Apparently you can't plug the transformers in either....right?

As Chris stated, the transformers are fine, flexible cords are what is not allowed.

Roger

 

[cschmid]

So since the transformer plugs directly into the outlet it is not cord connected and the 24 volts power connection is not classified as a cord connection..interesting..so if there is a 12 inch cord between transformer and the plug and it is all factory made is that still legal or is it classified as a power cord? since the definition of power cord is a cord carrying 120 volts or more..or do we have a different definition for power cord??I thought the code state flexible cords not power cords..I will like it when my code on CD ROM gets here so it is easier to cut and paste..

 

[raider1]

I thought the code state flexible cords not power cords..

It does, if the transformer is connect to any flexible cord of the types listed in Table 400.4 regardless of the voltage within the flexible cord, then it is a violation.

Chris

 

[220/221]

I read mis read this. I missed the connected to the branch circuit.

600.21 Ballasts, Transformers, and Electronic Power Supplies

(F) Suspended Ceilings. Ballasts, transformers, and electronic power supplies are permitted to be located above suspended ceilings, provided their enclosures are securely fastened in place and not dependent on the suspended ceiling grid for support. Ballasts, transformers, and electronic power supplies installed in suspended ceilings cannot be connected to the branch circuit by flexible cord.

After the transformer that is plugged directly into the outlet (no flex cord) the LV wire is no longer part of the branch circuit and is allowable....right?

 

[raider1]

I read mis read this. I missed the connected to the branch circuit.






After the transformer that is plugged directly into the outlet (no flex cord) the LV wire is no longer part of the branch circuit and is allowable....right?

Again, the prohibition is the installation of flexible cord above a suspended ceiling regardless of the voltage of the system utilizing the flexible cord.

Chris