Outlets above suspended ceiling.
- Thread starter mfbettwy
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http://www.all-cctv.com/power_supplies.htm
Seems to be a difference of opinion
http://www.all-cctv.com/power_supplies.htm
Pierre C Belarge said:
raider1 said:
Seems to be a difference of opinion
http://www.all-cctv.com/power_supplies.htm
220/221 said:
If the speaker wire being used is a flexible cord listed in Table 400.4 then it is illegal.
We do not have to look at 400.7 and 400.8 for other types of cables covered in other articles such as 720 and 725 for examples.
Roger
realolman said:
Realolman, notice the power supply plugs directly into the receptacle, after this the low voltage side is not using a flexible cord listed in 400.4
Roger
joebell
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- New Hampshire
This has been a very informitive thread but at times I thought I was reading a transcript of "Who's on First".
Joe
Joe
ItsHot
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- A little piece of heaven!
me too!
me too!
me too!
Hey Joe! Me too!! (nec) National Electrical Confusion?joebell said:
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
roger said:
This is one of the keys to this topic.
Notice in the link I mentioned, that a small transformer is plugged into the receptacle and the cable that is on the load side of the transformer is not one listed in Table 400.4.
cschmid
Senior Member
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- Northern cold country
so now if the transformer has a flexible cord 12" before the actual transformer it is not allowed..but the transformer that plugs into the outlet is allowed..I believe we might be close to the answer for the original question now..
Yes you can..
mfbettwy said:
Yes you can..
M. D.
Senior Member
Wouldn't the class 2 transformer have to meet;
UL 2043 - Fire Test for Heat and Visible Smoke Release for Discrete Products and Their Accessories Installed in Air-Handling Spaces: Determine the rate of heat release and the rate of smoke release of the burning product samples as they relate to the requirements for fire-resistant and low-smoke-producing characteristics for discrete products (electrical equipment) intended to be installed in air handling spaces such as above suspended ceiling.
Are we assuming that it does or is this an inhierent part of the standard for these power supplies?
UL 2043 - Fire Test for Heat and Visible Smoke Release for Discrete Products and Their Accessories Installed in Air-Handling Spaces: Determine the rate of heat release and the rate of smoke release of the burning product samples as they relate to the requirements for fire-resistant and low-smoke-producing characteristics for discrete products (electrical equipment) intended to be installed in air handling spaces such as above suspended ceiling.
Are we assuming that it does or is this an inhierent part of the standard for these power supplies?
- Location
- Massachusetts
M. D. said:
LMAO.....
just when it appeared this thread had reached a conclusion.I think your right if it is an air handling space.
300.22(C)(2)
Re: the transformer for the cctv camera, what type cord is it?
I understand that the restriction against using flexible cords above a suspended ceiling is a part of the NEC.
I also think that the fact that this topic has gone this length and come down to such hair splitting indicates that many feel it is an unreasonable restriction.
It seems to me a greater risk of injury to make thousands of people stand on step ladders up inside suspended ceilings to wire and un-wire fixtures rather than unplug them, than would ever occur from having them plugged in with a flexible cord.
Everything deteriorates.
No one makes a flexible cord that is capable of withstanding the environment above a suspended ceiling, and deteriorates at a similar rate to the things that ARE permitted to be there?
I understand that the restriction against using flexible cords above a suspended ceiling is a part of the NEC.
I also think that the fact that this topic has gone this length and come down to such hair splitting indicates that many feel it is an unreasonable restriction.
It seems to me a greater risk of injury to make thousands of people stand on step ladders up inside suspended ceilings to wire and un-wire fixtures rather than unplug them, than would ever occur from having them plugged in with a flexible cord.
Everything deteriorates.
No one makes a flexible cord that is capable of withstanding the environment above a suspended ceiling, and deteriorates at a similar rate to the things that ARE permitted to be there?
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- Location
- Massachusetts
Heck lets just wire everything with plugs and rubber cord......I don't need to keep working.
cschmid
Senior Member
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- Northern cold country
yes rodger raider answered correctly in post #2 but the real discussion is what can the outlet be used for..The OP wanted to plug in a transformer for a CCTV now MD has to throw in this smoke hazard info..So my question is how would we tell if it qualifies to be above the suspended ceiling with UL203??
LOL Good morning everyone..
LOL Good morning everyone..
Cschmud,
If you are going to use a item in a plenum ceiling, it and everything associated with it will need to suitable for the installation, note what I said in post #69.
Now let me clarify my position, I think there should be some exceptions to the rules in 400.8 but there are not, so, if you try to use a cord above a ceiling an inspector should tag it or give you "special permission in writing" (good luck getting it)
You can install a receptacle in a ceiling for service use, but you can't leave a cord plugged in to it, you can also install a panel in a residential bath room but you can't put breakers in it, that's just the way it is.
Roger
It can be used for many things, use your imagination. You can't use it for a flexible cord prohibited in 400.8cschmid said:
Simple, check the listing information.cschmid said:
If you are going to use a item in a plenum ceiling, it and everything associated with it will need to suitable for the installation, note what I said in post #69.
Now let me clarify my position, I think there should be some exceptions to the rules in 400.8 but there are not, so, if you try to use a cord above a ceiling an inspector should tag it or give you "special permission in writing" (good luck getting it)
You can install a receptacle in a ceiling for service use, but you can't leave a cord plugged in to it, you can also install a panel in a residential bath room but you can't put breakers in it, that's just the way it is.
Roger
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cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
MD I did not say it was your fault but you did quote the rule and I agree smoke is more dangerous than allot of things..Rodger I do understand yet we need to understand the equipment that gets used in the outlets above suspended ceilings..they are not service outlets as no one knows they are there unless you installed them..so does the label on the plug in transformer have to state it is for above suspended ceilings or are we to assume if it is UL listed it is good to go..must go finish rough in..have good day..
- Location
- Massachusetts
The transformer would have to be listed for use in handling spaces if in fact the ceiling space was being used for air handling, not all are.
I don't think we can assume all (or any) of these plug in transformers are listed for that.
The fact that it is common to see many items plugged in above a ceiling has absolutely nothing to do with what the code actually allows or prohibits.
I don't think we can assume all (or any) of these plug in transformers are listed for that.
The fact that it is common to see many items plugged in above a ceiling has absolutely nothing to do with what the code actually allows or prohibits.
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