Panelboards in Bedrooms

[George Stolz]

So I guess we need to revise the NEC to prohibit panels in dwelling units. Is it too late to make the 2011 deadlines?

Dare I ask what the alternative to panels are?

You know, we can't really put them outside either - somebody might walk by and play with the breakers, or hit them with a car...

 

[mxslick]

Dare I ask what the alternative to panels are?

See my post above yours.


LOL George, most of the panels in So Cal ARE outside!

I got to get a picture of our lovely service at my apts.

 

[mxslick]

Brace yourselves for the horror!!

Brace yourselves for the horror!!

Here's the service at my palatial estate.

Can we say disaster zone?

Bet you can't guess which panel is mine?

The POCO told me 4 years ago they were going to upgrade the meters. :roll:

Oh, and that FPE service and meter is 120v ONLY.

 

[480sparky]

No matter what, wherever you put a panel, there's going to be something in front of it once you're done and gone.

 

[celtic]

Yea...I quoted myself ....pix are new

I'm doing a job at a school....the door to the elec. room has a sign "FIRE DOOR - MUST BE CLOSED AT ALL TIMES".
Ok ...

The head custodian is pretty adamant about us shutting the door about a million times a day...

...inside said electrical room?

Storage.

:grin:

I'll post some pix in the next few days.

Awesome

 

[480sparky]

Yea...I quoted myself ....pix are new

Awesome

I love all the missing raceway supports.

 

[celtic]

I love all the missing raceway supports.

Paaaaa lllllleeeeaaaaasssssseeee!

LOL :grin:

The electrical in this place is one giant violation .

 

[480sparky]

...The electrical in this place is one giant violation .

Then it's one simple job to fix it, then, isn't it?

BTW, if that's a fire door, where's the fire stopping around those three big EMTs?

(sorry..... you post 'em , we roast 'em!)

 

[celtic]

BTW, if that's a fire door, where's the fire stopping around those three big EMTs?

(sorry..... you post 'em , we roast 'em!)

Done...check the dates on the pix

 

[cowboyjwc]

AFCIs were required in bedroom circuits because in the majority of electrical fires that resulted in death, the people were in the bedroom. Asleep. Think about it...... You spend most of your time in your home in the bedroom sleeping. Ergo, for some silly reason the NFPA decided that's where you should start AFCiing circuits. Never mind an electrical fire can start anywhere in a home and still kill you. Guess that's the conclusion they finally came to and now we have AFCI all through the home.

Personally, I don't see any difference between putting a panel in a bedroom as opposed to the garage, basement, etc. Many an apartment building I've done all the panels are behind the Master BR door. Yea, someone can hang their bathrobe on the back of the door so it's right in line for a nice pretty arc. But the same holds true no matter where you put a panel... someone will put something flammable in front of it.

Actually the Consumer Produet Safety Council asked the manufactures to start looking into ways to protect the public from fire much the same way a GFCI is designed to protect from shock. Then they and the manufactures pushed for the code change.

As for as where a panel is installed I never gave it much thought either other than not putting it in a rated wall, which is why in most apartment you will find it either in the hallway or bedroom, since usually the four exterior wall, the ceiling and possibly the floor are rated.

 

[peter d]

Here's the service at my palatial estate.

Can we say disaster zone?

Time to find a new apartment building.

But at least you have Homeline breakers there.

 

[brian john]

Hey make the bedroom totally safe NO wiring at all and a 2 hour fire rating. If ywe aren't good enough to safely put a panel in a bedroom, maybe we all should take up another trade?

Install per NEC, test and walk away knowing what you completed was installed by a professional.

 

[mxslick]

Time to find a new apartment building.

But at least you have Homeline breakers there.

LOL I actually have no worries about most of this service, except for the wiring in that gutter (POCO side) as it is all the older rubber covered wire, #6, with all the joins being split bolts covered with rubber tape. When I installed my new panel I ran #4 THHN down from the meter base into my new panel..it was some scary work. I took great pains to not disturb the wiring in that gutter. There are plans to change out that FPE to a Homeline soon.

Luckily none of the units have heavy loads.

The conversions from the old C/H dual breakers to Homeline was done by the landlord, and I don't want to go into details about how the tie-ins are done.

I have been trying to talk the landlord into doing a more modern 5-pack meter combo. But he figuires if the POCO doesn't force the change, he's gonna leave it alone.

 

[mxslick]

Hey make the bedroom totally safe NO wiring at all and a 2 hour fire rating. If ywe aren't good enough to safely put a panel in a bedroom, maybe we all should take up another trade?

Install per NEC, test and walk away knowing what you completed was installed by a professional.

Brian, it's not a issue of workmanship. It is the issue of the "what if" scenario being played out, and the bad idea of having a panel in sleeping quarters. Think about it.

Otherwise, as I've stated , I agree there isn't enough of an issue to force a Code change.

 

[mxslick]

BTW here's the link to the thread George was referring to, which engendered this discussion...LINK

Take a look at that first picture and tell me you'd be o.k. with something like that happening in your bedroom.

 

[iwire]

BTW here's the link to the thread George was referring to, which engendered this discussion...LINK

Take a look at that first picture and tell me you'd be o.k. with something like that happening in your bedroom.

No I would not want that happening anywhere in my home.

I also would not like lightning to strike my home or a large chunk of ice falling on me while I sleep. Both events are probably as likely as the cover being blown of a dwelling unit panel.

My point being is we could find a failure of every electrical device in every location none of that means those devices are inherently dangerous.

 

[tonyou812]

sometimes you dont have a choice you have to put it in a bedroom. If seen them in kitchen cabinets. in crawspaces you name it. i dont see the great hazzard it it is in the bedroom.

 

[quogueelectric]

As the definition of outlet in 2005 code would include a panel as an outlet. 210.12(b) would take effect. You would have to arcfault everything in that panel.

 

[brian john]

Brian, it's not a issue of workmanship. It is the issue of the "what if" scenario being played out, and the bad idea of having a panel in sleeping quarters. Think about it.

Thought about it and I have no concerns, Now in my house I considered layout prior to wiring and put my panels in basement hallway and garage.

 

[wbalsam1]

As the definition of outlet in 2005 code would include a panel as an outlet. 210.12(b) would take effect. You would have to arcfault everything in that panel.

Very interesting. Please go on.