Residential garage recptacles

[natepifer]

I read the Rec. outlet being anything from a single rec all the way to a 3 gang box with 3 duplexs.

When the code says you need one Rec outlet per space i see that as 1 outlet box no matter the size of that box and amount of recs it contains.

in my opinion a 3 car garage would need 3 totally separate Rec outlets or 3 totally separate outlet boxes be it single gang 2 gang 3 gang and so forth. Locations should be in reference to each space be it centered or to the left or right of the space.

 

[James L]

Receptacle outlet doesn't define the type which could be a single ,duplex , quad.....

As I mentioned previously, I believe a 4-gang box full of duplex receptacles would be considered as 1 receptacle outlet

I understand it to mean one outlet (or box) which contains 1 or more receptacles

 

[James L]

I read the Rec. outlet being anything from a single rec all the way to a 3 gang box with 3 duplexs.

When the code says you need one Rec outlet per space i see that as 1 outlet box no matter the size of that box and amount of recs it contains.

in my opinion a 3 car garage would need 3 totally separate Rec outlets or 3 totally separate outlet boxes be it single gang 2 gang 3 gang and so forth. Locations should be in reference to each space be it centered or to the left or right of the space.

I believe you have an accurate distinction between outlet and receptacle

 

[electricalist]

On a take off I would call it a opening at 180 watts.
My own thinking trips me again.
A single Receptacle opening-outlet is the opening in which the device be it a single or duplex is installed.

 

[kwired]

I will try it this way.


Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the
outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single
receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact
device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or
more contact devices on the same yoke.



Device. A unit of an electrical system that carries or controls
electric energy as its principal function.



So clearly a receptacle is what we all expect it to be. The plastic device we purchase in colors and often install at receptacle outlets.



Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles
are installed.


To me a receptacle outlet is typically the electrical box we install on the wall to contain a receptacle.


Perhaps this is exactly what the CMP wants, it forces the installation of multiple boxes for multiple car spaces. (IMO)

Also need to include:

Outlet.


A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

Doesn't a duplex receptacle provide you with two points in which you can take current to supply utilization equipment?

Seems to me the NEC needs a little work getting these definitions to work together smoothly. I can agree with most anything that has been mentioned in this thread - until another NEC defined term comes along with some contradiction.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is still only one receptacle outlet with two receptacles contained in it.

The device itself is not a receptacle outlet(s)

Put the code aside a sec and think about 2 single receptacles 6" apart satisfying the NEC but a duplex does not-- Any inspector that looks at that and turns it down doesn't think.

 

[James L]

Any inspector that looks at that and turns it down doesn't think.

Or thinks too much

 

[kwired]

As I mentioned previously, I believe a 4-gang box full of duplex receptacles would be considered as 1 receptacle outlet

I understand it to mean one outlet (or box) which contains 1 or more receptacles

So if we assemble many many "gangable" boxes and end up with a single box that takes up the entire width of the wall (and come up with a closure plate) and maybe even run 40 branch circuits to supply the entire thing - we still only have one outlet?

But put two single gang boxes just half an inch apart and we can satisfy the need for two "outlets" for a garage that needs at least two outlets:roll:

 

[James L]

So if we assemble many many "gangable" boxes and end up with a single box that takes up the entire width of the wall (and come up with a closure plate)

It could be done with snap-together gangable plates

and maybe even run 40 branch circuits to supply the entire thing - we still only have one outlet?

That's how I understand the definition of "outlet"

But put two single gang boxes just half an inch apart and we can satisfy the need for two "outlets" for a garage that needs at least two outlets:roll:

Crazy, isn't it?

That's the difference between technical meaning and intended meaning. They need to be one and the same. The technical language needs to adequately convey the intended meaning, and it doesn't in this case

 

[electricalist]

With all the valuable clarification I have learned here.
I feel its my duty to go to work tomorrow and give my co workers THE BLUES.
What is a single receptacle outlet?

 

[iwire]

Put the code aside a sec and think about 2 single receptacles 6" apart satisfying the NEC but a duplex does not-- Any inspector that looks at that and turns it down doesn't think.

Forget about trying to make it sensible.

Read what it says.

 

[electricalist]

In the nfpa handbook it illustrates an receptacle outlet to consist of 1 yoke, so as iwire said the receptacle outlet is the opening for which a single duplex on triple outlet may be installed..
Single gange box and how ever many receptacles will fit that are one yoke..
this was on the home page ..videos..2014 ..outlets on a branch circuit other than dwelling.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Put the code aside a sec and think about 2 single receptacles 6" apart satisfying the NEC but a duplex does not-- Any inspector that looks at that and turns it down doesn't think.

An inspector who has done that has read and understands what the code rule requires.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

An inspector who has done that has read and understands what the code rule requires.

Or what he interprets the code rule to require. Obviously in the scenario I stated it meets the intent no matter how you look at it. It would absolutely ridiculous to make someone add another box next to that box.

as someone else stated about a 2 gang box with 2 duplex receptacles-- still one outlet. IMO if you turn it down then you are why too rigid an inspector for my liking. Sometimes you need to use your head-- it may cases I understand going strictly by code but not in this case

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Does that mean a 4-lamp fluorescent fixture has 4 outlets (or maybe 8)?

Article 210.52(G)(1) states receptacle outlet. I understand your point but this is more specific than outlet.

FWIW, this was mentioned at our state meeting last April and the cmp who answered this agrees with what I stated. Of course that doesn't mean anything since the authority having jurisdiction will have that decision

 

[kwired]

In the nfpa handbook it illustrates an receptacle outlet to consist of 1 yoke, so as iwire said the receptacle outlet is the opening for which a single duplex on triple outlet may be installed..
Single gange box and how ever many receptacles will fit that are one yoke..
this was on the home page ..videos..2014 ..outlets on a branch circuit other than dwelling.

Handbook commentary is the opinion of the author though, just like Bob has his opinion. Is possible neither one of those opinions are what the CMP that wrote the applicable sections intended it to mean -yet maybe didn't get clear enough final copy to make their intent obvious.


FIFY-

An inspector who has done that has read and understands what is printed but possibly not the intent of those that wrote it.

 

[electricalist]

Yea that kinda bothers me. I bought it without researching its validity and it's been very helpful but I thought those who write the code finally decided to show what the intent is.
There are things that are pretty hard to describe with just words.
I figured if they can go through all that it takes to write a code ,make a test based on it then enforce it across America,,,then some examples would be the obvious.

 

[kwired]

Yea that kinda bothers me. I bought it without researching its validity and it's been very helpful but I thought those who write the code finally decided to show what the intent is.
There are things that are pretty hard to describe with just words.
I figured if they can go through all that it takes to write a code ,make a test based on it then enforce it across America,,,then some examples would be the obvious.

If you want to know the intent of the CMP's you kind of have to decipher it from what is printed as well as ROP's and even after that, intent is not always clear cut.

NEC handbook commentary is no different then Mike Holt's published materials, may be more authors contributing to it, but still not contributed by the same people that wrote the NEC itself. It also just happens to be published by NFPA which since they already have the rights to NEC itself it makes it that much easier to put the NEC in there with the commentary. Mike Holt and others like him will quote sections of code and then explain them with their own comments, but none of them have any publications AFAIK that have the entire code published along with commentary.

 

[iwire]

Or what he interprets the code rule to require. Obviously in the scenario I stated it meets the intent no matter how you look at it. It would absolutely ridiculous to make someone add another box next to that box.

as someone else stated about a 2 gang box with 2 duplex receptacles-- still one outlet. IMO if you turn it down then you are why too rigid an inspector for my liking. Sometimes you need to use your head-- it may cases I understand going strictly by code but not in this case

So in a nutshell ignore code rules you do not agree with? :?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So in a nutshell ignore code rules you do not agree with? :?

\

Bob you not that is not what I am saying. I see it differently than you do- that is all. Interpretation is very subject and sometimes common sense must be used.