Peninsula Receptacle

[charlie b]

The measurement of a peninsular type countertop is from the edge connecting to the non peninsular counter

That (unfortunately) presumes the presence of a non peninsular counter. It certainly does not establish a definition to the effect that the first 24 inches constitute non-peninsular counter.

 

[charlie b]

If I have a piece of countertop that is 2' by 3', unconnected to any other countertops, and the 3' side is against the wall, then I think everyone would agree this is wall countertop space.

I can't speak for everyone, but I agree.

Now if I turn it so the 2' side is against the wall, what is it?

It is a peninsula.

If it is a peninsula, is it all peninsula countertop space, or is part of it wall counterop space?

It is all peninsula.

Absent proper definitions, this will always be ambiguous.

Agreed.

 

[electricmanscott]

That (unfortunately) presumes the presence of a non peninsular counter. It certainly does not establish a definition to the effect that the first 24 inches constitute non-peninsular counter.

What we are talking about is the actual counter surface for which the required receptacles serve. It becomes a peninsula (counter surface) only when it is connected to the main body which is the linear counter surface along the wall. If the counter is jutting out only from a wall it is not a peninsula counter surface.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the counter is jutting out only from a wall it is not a peninsula counter surface.

Or is the part past the 2' a peninsula and the first part base as I have said all along

 

[charlie b]

Or is the part past the 2' a peninsula and the first part base as I have said all along

That's what you said, but there is no basis in the NEC for that conclusion. You are as welcome to your opinion on this question as I hope you believe me to be. But you will agree, I also hope, that the NEC does not declare the first two feet to be within the scope of 210.52(C)(1). For my part, I can't imagine why it should be. For my part, I look at the aforementioned photo #1, and all I see is a peninsula. So I would apply 210.52(C)(3), and not (C)(1).

 

[charlie b]

It becomes a peninsula (counter surface) only when it is connected to the main body which is the linear counter surface along the wall. If the counter is jutting out only from a wall it is not a peninsula counter surface.

The NEC does not define "peninsula." But Webster's does. Nothing in the dictionary at my desk requires the presence of an "along the wall counter," in order for a "peninsula" to be present.

 

[brentk]

I will agree the code is not very clear. On that note, the code is the minimum and rather than trying to think my way out of the extra receptacle I would put it in, knowing full well it will see plenty of usage.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

IMHO, it does not. Why should it? Where is the rule, the definition, the FPN, the exception, anything, any words whatsoever, that says, "if a piece of countertop material comes into contact with a wall, then 210.52(C)(1) applies"?

There is none. There is no definition of wall countertop space either. As a matter of fact there is no definition of any of the spaces. It is all subjective. IMO the NEC means for any space in all countertop spaces not to be more than 2' from an outlet. I agree that it does not say that specifically. It stands to reason if the countertop space is 5 feet long and the appliance cord is 2' long you can only use the 2' nearest the receptacle if you only have one on the wall. Bottom line I agree with Dennis.

 

[wwhitney]

That (unfortunately) presumes the presence of a non peninsular counter. It certainly does not establish a definition to the effect that the first 24 inches constitute non-peninsular counter.

Well, we better not draw the line at 24 inches, because with standard 24 inch deep base cabinets, you typically have a 25 or 26 inch countertop. That is why I suggested 30 inches.

Consider another example: a straight wall with a 14" deep wall countertop run that ends at a 26" x 26" countertop area. As I read the 210.52(C)(3), this is a 12" x 26" peninsula, and so it requires its own receptacle that can't be on the wall. But that is pretty ridiculous.

I think that 210.52(C) would benefit from a rewrite in terms of "wall counter space" and "other counter space", with "other counter space" defined as counter space more than 30" from a wall. Then 210.52(C)(2) and 210.52(C)(3) could be combined into one section that says every sufficiently large contiguous area of "other counter space" requires at least one receptacle.

As to the OP, my current point of view is that the NEC is ambiguous on this configuration, as it is not a configuration contemplated. If you consider it the limiting case of moving an island towads the wall, then you would just require one wall receptacle. If you consider it the limiting case of a "normal" L-shaped peninsula with the leg against the wall shrinking to nothing, then you would require one wall receptacle and one peninsular receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is a 2011 ROP on the subject

Submitter: Frederic P. Hartwell, Hartwell Electrical Services, Inc.
Recommendation: Add the following exception:
Exception: A receptacle in a wall countertop space shall be permitted to serve as the receptacle for a peninsular countertop space where the spaces are contiguous and the receptacle is located within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the end.
Substantiation: The NEC does not clearly address the common instance where a peninsular countertop may or may not be served by a receptacle in a wall for a contiguous counter. Technically that wall receptacle is not “at” the peninsular counter unless the “connecting edge” is taken to be extended from the near front lip of the peninsula at right angles to the adjacent wall counter, a creative interpretation that works but that is very inconsistently applied. Many peninsulas are really attached kitchen tables, and present significant construction difficulties in providing a receptacle if the wall is not an eligible placement. However, once a peninsular counter exceeds 6 ft in distance from the wall, it would still require a receptacle somewhere at its more distant margin to comply with 210.52(A)(2)(3), and this proposal reinforces that requirement.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise the submitter’s recommendation to read:
Exception: A receptacle in a wall countertop space shall be permitted to serve as the receptacle for a peninsular countertop space where the spaces are
contiguous and the receptacle is located within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside end of the peninsula.
Panel Statement: The panel has accepted the submitter’s recommendation but added additional words to make it clear that the 6-ft measurement is from the end of the peninsula itself.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 10 Negative: 2
Explanation of Negative:
KING, D.: This proposal will eliminate the existing requirement for at least one receptacle to supply a penninsular countertop space in many common
installations without adequate substantiation from the Submitter. The code clearly defines where a penninsular countertop space begins and it should be
considered a separate countertop space. WEBER, R.: I feel the panel needs to reconsider its position on this proposal
and ultimately reject, this exception which would remove the requirement or have a required receptacle on the peninsular counter top space if it is shorter
than 6 ft. long. As proposed the wall receptacle within 6 ft. of the end of the peninsular and at the wall line that it attaches to, would meet the code. As most counter top appliances being utilized now come with an 18 in. to 2 ft. cord connected to it, we would then need to use an extension cord or plug strip
inserted in the wall receptacle to provide power for use on the peninsular space. Some may say to just not place any appliances for use on the peninsular area; my position is to retain the current code requirement and provide a fixed receptacle to meet the dwelling unit owners needs.

 

[russ]

Looks like there are two views for the stand alone peninsula space.
#1 It's just one space so you only need one receptacle.
#2 It's two spaces, a wall space, connected in a straight line with a peninsula space.That peninsula space being the area which extends beyond what a normal counter depth would be.


I vote #2

 

[rickgomes26]

Those are perfect examples of both!! Thanks a bunch. A picture is worth a thousand words. I agree with you

+1 on this...I agree 100%

 

[charlie b]

Looks like there are two views for the stand alone peninsula space.

Nicely summarized, Russ. I vote for #1.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Nicely summarized, Russ. I vote for #1.

You're a funny man, Charlie Brown.:grin:

 

[DARUSA]

I vote #1 too!!!!

 

[LarryFine]

I've been reading, but haven't jumped in yet. Rather than quote a bunch of comments, I'll respond to snippets I remember.The mere fact that the thread is going as it is shows there's no clear answer, so each opinion is just that.

I haven't actually made up my mind yet. Both sides make great arguments. I'll narrow it down as I type this. We each use our own logic and reasoning in making decisions. Well, here's mine:

While 24" is the traditional countertop depth, it's not etched in stone (pardon the pun), so the only reason the red line 24" from the wall is the magic line is because that's the depth of the countertop(s) flanking the peninsula.

If there's no flanking countertop, then what defines the distance from the wall where a peninsula receptacle is needed? The depth of the other countertops in the room? What if there are different depths in different areas?

Then, what defines a peninsula? A 1" projection, or 2"? A foot? Whether or not there are cabinets beneath? What if the peninsula was a floating, cantilevered countertop? Where would you put a second (non-wall) receptacle?

Then again, what about the other way? If there is a receptacle on the end of a stand-alone peninsula, must there still be a receptacle where the end of the peninsula butts the wall? Or is the one on the peninsula enough?

What about the example given of a peninsula that happens to adjoin a run of wall countertops right between two compliantly-spaced receptacles? Can an additional wall receptacle, centered on the peninsula, serve it?

No horizontal distances above the countertop are specified for peninsula receptacles, only that there must be one in addition to the required wall-space-serving ones. The stand-alone peninsula has no such wall space.

If you say there should be a wall-mounted receptacle for a peninsula even if there is no perpendicular wall-space counter-top, then that receptacle obviously already serves the peninsula, bringing us back to the beginning.

So, my vote is Pic 1, the stand-alone peninsula, can be served by either a wall receptacle or a peninsula one, while Pic 2 with the cabinets along the wall, needs a peninsula receptacle whether there's one on the wall or not.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I've been reading, but haven't jumped in yet. Rather than quote a bunch of comments, I'll respond to snippets I remember.The mere fact that the thread is going as it is shows there's no clear answer, so each opinion is just that.

I haven't actually made up my mind yet. Both sides make great arguments. I'll narrow it down as I type this. We each use our own logic and reasoning in making decisions. Well, here's mine:

While 24" is the traditional countertop depth, it's not etched in stone (pardon the pun), so the only reason the red line 24" from the wall is the magic line is because that's the depth of the countertop(s) flanking the peninsula.

If there's no flanking countertop, then what defines the distance from the wall where a peninsula receptacle is needed? The depth of the other countertops in the room? What if there are different depths in different areas?

Then, what defines a peninsula? A 1" projection, or 2"? A foot? Whether or not there are cabinets beneath? What if the peninsula was a floating, cantilevered countertop? Where would you put a second (non-wall) receptacle?

Then again, what about the other way? If there is a receptacle on the end of a stand-alone peninsula, must there still be a receptacle where the end of the peninsula butts the wall? Or is the one on the peninsula enough?

What about the example given of a peninsula that happens to adjoin a run of wall countertops right between two compliantly-spaced receptacles? Can an additional wall receptacle, centered on the peninsula, serve it?

No horizontal distances above the countertop are specified for peninsula receptacles, only that there must be one in addition to the required wall-space-serving ones. The stand-alone peninsula has no such wall space.

If you say there should be a wall-mounted receptacle for a peninsula even if there is no perpendicular wall-space counter-top, then that receptacle obviously already serves the peninsula, bringing us back to the beginning.

So, my vote is Pic 1, the stand-alone peninsula, can be served by either a wall receptacle or a peninsula one, while Pic 2 with the cabinets along the wall, needs a peninsula receptacle whether there's one on the wall or not.

As usual, beautifully summed up Larry

 

[charlie b]

Then again, what about the other way? If there is a receptacle on the end of a stand-alone peninsula, must there still be a receptacle where the end of the peninsula butts the wall? Or is the one on the peninsula enough?

Excellent observation! I think this summarizes the controversy quite well.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Excellent observation! I think this summarizes the controversy quite well.

I concur but I disagree.:grin:

 

[construct]

How about another obsevation to throw into the mix.:grin: The code does not define a "what" a penninsula is. If you think of a land penninsula as a "body of land surounded on three sides by water" and apply that logic to a countertop, then you could say a penninsula countertop is a countertop that is open on three sides. Since the code does not say that a penninsula countertop is one who's long dimension is perpendicular to the wall or another counter space then consider this: A 6' long by 2' deep counter centered against a 12' wall. It too would be open on three sides, so could it be called a penninsula? I don't know.

As many have said, this area is gray. I think with the wording in the code as it is, I think some good judgement should be applied.