Jerseydaze
Senior Member
New Business in jersey falls under "continued use" ran some 20 amp circuits to 15 amp duplex receptacles and gfis .Got a failed sticker that said "commercial needs 20 amp devices" anyone think hes right ?
I failed
- Thread starter Jerseydaze
- Start date
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76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
- Location
- Logan, Utah
There is no NEC section that requires the use of 20 amp devices exclusively in commercial buildings. There may be a local amendment that requires this though.
Chris
Chris
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Are there local admenments?
Did her quote any NEC or Local sections? Or did he pull it out of his rear pocket?
Did her quote any NEC or Local sections? Or did he pull it out of his rear pocket?
short circuit faulted
Member
- Location
- Columbia SC
AHJ Has the Final Word
AHJ Has the Final Word
AHJ has final say, I have learned that lesson painfully. For a strip mall installed two seperate electrial services for the express purpose of providing power to sprinkler controllers under the jurisdiction of two AHJ's one AHJ had abosolutely no problem service as installed which was code minimum for service conductors terminating into a six circuit raintight with one 20A breaker feeding a 20 ampere receptacle in an raintight enclosure below. Second AHJ failed the installation requiring that a main breaker be installed and that he could not locate the ground rod, which was installed per NEC below finished grade - he only had to pull on the bare leaving the pole had he been so inclined - The breaker he said was to prevent the service conductor from being overloaded - I should mention these services were located just behind a tree line of Leyland Cypress - I doubt seriously any other load was ever added. But I didn't argue, just asked what needed to be done to correct, we installed a 40/2 as a backfed MCB and dug out around top of ground rod leaving dirt close enough to hole that hopefully rain would wash it back in place. The one that caused me to bite my tongue off was an OSF (Office of School Facilities) - We had installed a reloc lighting system and as is the nature that reloc is longer we tied the reloc in coils to our seismic support wires for the fixtures - OSF inspector stated we could roll up the reloc in that fashion as the code would not allow more than 360 degrees of bend in a conduit...Oh my I started but thought better of it to tell him these were manufactered wiring assemblies and not conduit...I just noted the problem and passed on to the superintendent, who walked away shaking his head.
Have a great day all!
Steve
AHJ Has the Final Word
AHJ has final say, I have learned that lesson painfully. For a strip mall installed two seperate electrial services for the express purpose of providing power to sprinkler controllers under the jurisdiction of two AHJ's one AHJ had abosolutely no problem service as installed which was code minimum for service conductors terminating into a six circuit raintight with one 20A breaker feeding a 20 ampere receptacle in an raintight enclosure below. Second AHJ failed the installation requiring that a main breaker be installed and that he could not locate the ground rod, which was installed per NEC below finished grade - he only had to pull on the bare leaving the pole had he been so inclined - The breaker he said was to prevent the service conductor from being overloaded - I should mention these services were located just behind a tree line of Leyland Cypress - I doubt seriously any other load was ever added. But I didn't argue, just asked what needed to be done to correct, we installed a 40/2 as a backfed MCB and dug out around top of ground rod leaving dirt close enough to hole that hopefully rain would wash it back in place. The one that caused me to bite my tongue off was an OSF (Office of School Facilities) - We had installed a reloc lighting system and as is the nature that reloc is longer we tied the reloc in coils to our seismic support wires for the fixtures - OSF inspector stated we could roll up the reloc in that fashion as the code would not allow more than 360 degrees of bend in a conduit...Oh my I started but thought better of it to tell him these were manufactered wiring assemblies and not conduit...I just noted the problem and passed on to the superintendent, who walked away shaking his head.
Have a great day all!
Steve
I concur with the others... he is incorrect.
210.21(B)(3) is the applicable requirement, and is quite explicit that 15A- and 20A-rated receptacles are permitted on 20A-rated circuits, local amendent withstanding.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
The inspector must enforce the code as written, unless there is a legally adopted local amendment. The inspector can't just make up his or her own rules.
Chris
Ohmy
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
I thought 15a receptacles on a 20a where never allowed except that they are permitted in residential use in branch circuit and general use outlets.
I do not think he is right.
NJ has not amended 210.21
http://newjersey.gov/dca/codes/ruleadoptions/nec_adopt.pdf
http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/20090323nj.cfm
Not true, see the aforementioned 210.21(B)(3), there is no metion of "dwelling unit" or "other than dwelling units"
Roger
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Every time you let an inspector pull this stuff you do a disservice to ALL electricians. You need to stand up and ask for the article and an explanation. If you are wrong you learn something and if you are right the inspector learns something.
This should be done in a professional manner.
20a. SINGLE receptacle is only required if it is the ONLY device on a 20a. circuit. Duplex makes it two outlets, and more than one duplex and you're free and clear.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
He's wrong.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
He's right. :wink:
Ohmy
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
Yeah, I just read that. I agree with the inspector though. 20A devices for 20A circuits in commercial buildings...seems like a good idea.
Also, the idea that if you have one socket you need a 20A device but if your going to plug in two things you are only required to have a 15A device is kinda silly when you say it out loud. Clearly, this issue was over thought by someone(s).
Ohmy
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
Whether he is technically right or wrong...I leave to page flippers.
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
The easiest way to get an answer is to ask the question. Of course you may not like the answer.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If you compare the contacts of a 15 and 20 amp receptacle of the same brand and series, you will find that they are exactly the same. The only difference is the "T" slot on the face of the 20 amp receptacle. There is no advantage in using a 20 amp receptacle unless you have some equipment that has a 20 amp plug on it.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Just to stimulate conversation: Why?
- Status