I failed

[Pierre C Belarge]

OHMY

1. The components-electrical contacts (guts of the receptacle) are manufactured identically for 15 and 20 amp rated receptacles. Take a look at Tables 210.21(B)(3). This specifically permits the 15 or 20 amp rated receptacles on a 20 amp rated circuit.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand this.
I wonder, do you own or have access to the UL White Book?

If you cannot agree with that, it is not a safety issue, maybe you should think of removing yourself as an inspector.
Also, take a look at the paperwork you signed to become an inspector. It is not your decision as an inspector to override the NEC or local codes. If that was the case, you live (in your mind) the 'wild wild west'.


I am also an inspector, I do make mistakes from time to time. I will listen to the contractor, discuss the topic with others, and change my mind if need be. It is not so bad to be wrong once in a while.
But...it really irritates me when someone like you comes along to wreck havoc on the system and the general reputation of inspectors.
I do not know how old you are, but it is never too late to learn new habits.

 

[Ohmy]

Clearly you are right. It was over thought by you. All you had to do was read the rule and apply it as written. The original poster did not ask how you would have written the rule if you were God.

That is true....you can get by just reading and applying the rule.

 

[Ohmy]

OHMY

1. The components-electrical contacts (guts of the receptacle) are manufactured identically for 15 and 20 amp rated receptacles. Take a look at Tables 210.21(B)(3). This specifically permits the 15 or 20 amp rated receptacles on a 20 amp rated circuit.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand this.
I wonder, do you own or have access to the UL White Book?

If you cannot agree with that, it is not a safety issue, maybe you should think of removing yourself as an inspector.
Also, take a look at the paperwork you signed to become an inspector. It is not your decision as an inspector to override the NEC or local codes. If that was the case, you live (in your mind) the 'wild wild west'.


I am also an inspector, I do make mistakes from time to time. I will listen to the contractor, discuss the topic with others, and change my mind if need be. It is not so bad to be wrong once in a while.
But...it really irritates me when someone like you comes along to wreck havoc on the system and the general reputation of inspectors.
I do not know how old you are, but it is never too late to learn new habits.

I am not an inspector....? You sound very passionate on this issue and I bet you are a great inspector. All I was saying is....if I was in your jurisdiction, I would not mind if you ask me to do something extra or nicer every once in a while.

Our service area covers over a dozen jurisdictions (counties and municipalities) so I deal fifty or so electrical inspectors. That all have their pet peeves and issues. Many are polar opposites when it comes to the code yet all of them (except the honest ones) will tell you they are following the letter of the law. If it makes everyone feel better to call an inspector's opinion his "interpretation" I am fine with that.

 

[Ohmy]

So are you saying it wouldn't bother you if a cop had a pet peeve and wrote tickets for driving 55 in a 55 MPH zone simply because he thought the area should have 45 MPH speed limit.

Roger

No...I am not saying that.

 

[LarryFine]

A friend of mine had a state inspector removed from duty when the inspector thought he was dealing with a DIY homeowner and stepped grossly and abusively over the line, but it turned out that the homeowner that he intimidated was the mother of a commercial electrician that actually did the work.

I presume the proper permitting was done, as evidenced by the inpection. Wasn't the electrician indicated in the permit?

 

[LarryFine]

All I was saying is....if I was in your jurisdiction, I would not mind if you ask me to do something extra or nicer every once in a while.

I wouldn't mind if "asked" to do something extra, too, but I would very much mind being cited for failure to do so.

Many are polar opposites when it comes to the code yet all of them (except the honest ones) will tell you they are following the letter of the law.

What do the honest ones claim to be following?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I presume the proper permitting was done, as evidenced by the inpection. Wasn't the electrician indicated in the permit?

This happened over 15 years ago so I can't remember the whole story. It was told to me because the inspector that he got fired from his county ended up getting a job in my county, and was in fact, the inspector for my new home. This EC was the EC of record for my permit.

He was a commercial electrician and the work was residential, so I don't know if he pulled the permit or his mother did. In this area, homeowners can pull permits for new work on an existing residence.

This EC's work is impeccable and excessively neat, and there were no code violations. I don't remember all of the problems but it was related to his abusive behavior. The one part of the story that I remember is that the first thing the inspector did on arrival was to berate the woman for not offering him a Coke on a hot day, and it went downhill from there. I think he may have gone after some non-existant NEC requirements too, but I don't remember what they were.

 

[GrayHeadedMule]

I'm an inspector and I only inspect things that are in the NEC and our local ammendments.

I'm sure there are other AHJ's who require contractors to perform additional work above the requirements of the code but if a contractor believes that I am wrong I want that challenge. Challenges to the code is what makes me a better inspector.

I hate it when a EC says "I'll do whatever you want!" .....It's not what I want!! It's what is in the code! If it's not in the code.....challenge the inspector. However I know it's not worth the hassle to challenge the inspector. Some inspectors think their crapola doesn't stink and they are right, no matter what the case may be! If I'm wrong...I need to be corrected.

A good inspector will learn from his mistakes and how else are you going to learn if a contractor doesn't challenge him? Electrical contractors can help make an inspector better at his job and visa versa!

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I'm an inspector and I only inspect things that are in the NEC and our local ammendments.

I'm sure there are other AHJ's who require contractors to perform additional work above the requirements of the code but if a contractor believes that I am wrong I want that challenge. Challenges to the code is what makes me a better inspector.

I hate it when a EC says "I'll do whatever you want!" .....It's not what I want!! It's what is in the code! If it's not in the code.....challenge the inspector. However I know it's not worth the hassle to challenge the inspector. Some inspectors think their crapola doesn't stink and they are right, no matter what the case may be! If I'm wrong...I need to be corrected.

A good inspector will learn from his mistakes and how else are you going to learn if a contractor doesn't challenge him? Electrical contractors can help make an inspector better at his job and visa versa!

Mule
It is almost as if you were quoting me. :grin:

Good for you, I hope you succeed in helping all those around you.

 

[Cavie]

Yeah, I just read that. I agree with the inspector though. 20A devices for 20A circuits in commercial buildings...seems like a good idea.

Also, the idea that if you have one socket you need a 20A device but if your going to plug in two things you are only required to have a 15A device is kinda silly when you say it out loud. Clearly, this issue was over thought by someone(s).

So, your telling me that my adding machine, laptop and printer and light at my desk need to have a 20 circuit and 20 receptacle???? Why?????

Why do we need to work in a safer place than we sleep in???? WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Earl Pitts, Ya gotta love him!

 

[Ohmy]

What do the honest ones claim to be following?

The honest ones admit that there is a level of subjectivity to the code and their "interpretation" is based on personal perspective and experience. Though that has nothing to do with whether an inspector should or could make you do something HE KNOWS is outside the NEC or local code.

BTW, I much rather have a local inspector tell me how to do my job than a national committee. Not that I have anything against the NEC or its writters...well sans the manufacturing reps.

 

[Ohmy]

So, your telling me that my adding machine, laptop and printer and light at my desk need to have a 20 circuit and 20 receptacle???? Why?????!

Nope, I am not saying that.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Ohmy
Don't take this the wrong way...you sound like you have been in the industry a long time. Your ideas are somewhat old school around where I work. Thing have been changing, and still are changing. The contractors and men want to be treated fairly and not forced to do what is not necessary.
We all used to work in 'small pockets' of the country. Now the national scene is upon all of us who do not have our heads in the sand (not suggesting you do) and it is what it is.
An example-you are from Atlanta, and I am from NY. In the past, we would never have had the opportunity to speak with one another. Now we cannot not only speak to people from far off places, we can learn all kinds of good stuff we never had the real opportunity to be able to do.

 

[spdtrx]

ohmy
don't take this the wrong way...you sound like you have been in the industry a long time. Your ideas are somewhat old school around where i work. Thing have been changing, and still are changing. The contractors and men want to be treated fairly and not forced to do what is not necessary.
We all used to work in 'small pockets' of the country. Now the national scene is upon all of us who do not have our heads in the sand (not suggesting you do) and it is what it is.
An example-you are from atlanta, and i am from ny. In the past, we would never have had the opportunity to speak with one another. Now we cannot not only speak to people from far off places, we can learn all kinds of good stuff we never had the real opportunity to be able to do.

well said.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I'm an inspector and I only inspect things that are in the NEC and our local ammendments.

I'm sure there are other AHJ's who require contractors to perform additional work above the requirements of the code but if a contractor believes that I am wrong I want that challenge. Challenges to the code is what makes me a better inspector.

I hate it when a EC says "I'll do whatever you want!" .....It's not what I want!! It's what is in the code! If it's not in the code.....challenge the inspector. However I know it's not worth the hassle to challenge the inspector. Some inspectors think their crapola doesn't stink and they are right, no matter what the case may be! If I'm wrong...I need to be corrected.

A good inspector will learn from his mistakes and how else are you going to learn if a contractor doesn't challenge him? Electrical contractors can help make an inspector better at his job and visa versa!

I agree 100%. I love when a contractor makes me dig in the book, because I simply don't do it enough on my own. Hopefully we both learn something.

If not, hopefully he'll learn something.:grin::grin:

 

[LarryFine]

I'm an inspector and I only inspect things that are in the NEC and our local ammendments.

... if a contractor believes that I am wrong I want that challenge.

If I'm wrong...I need to be corrected.

A good inspector will learn from his mistakes ...

You sure don't sound like a mule! :smile:

 

[LarryFine]

I agree 100%. I love when a contractor makes me dig in the book, because I simply don't do it enough on my own. Hopefully we both learn something.

If not, hopefully he'll learn something.:grin::grin:

Neither do you! :smile:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Neither do you! :smile:

Thanks. Too many inspectors forget that we actually work for the contractor, he's paying us, not the other way around. I'm just another set of eyes and sometimes another set of ideas.

 

[Ohmy]

Ohmy
Don't take this the wrong way...you sound like you have been in the industry a long time. Your ideas are somewhat old school around where I work. Thing have been changing, and still are changing. The contractors and men want to be treated fairly and not forced to do what is not necessary.
We all used to work in 'small pockets' of the country. Now the national scene is upon all of us who do not have our heads in the sand (not suggesting you do) and it is what it is.
An example-you are from Atlanta, and I am from NY. In the past, we would never have had the opportunity to speak with one another. Now we cannot not only speak to people from far off places, we can learn all kinds of good stuff we never had the real opportunity to be able to do.

I support that!

Better old than dead.....

 

[GrayHeadedMule]

You sure don't sound like a mule! :smile:

It's the gray hair! It tends to make one mellow! Now those young mules....different story. But I'm one of those old mules you see standing in the field just glad that I'm not a bottle of glue!