I failed

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Ohmy

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
Then why would it be okay for an inspector to uphold a law that is not written? Can you imagine what would happen if we gave total discretion to inspectors-- or to anyone for that matter.

Inspecrtors enforce the code to do more than that should not be in there scope otherwise some may want #12 wire run to all lighting circuits. It would be utter chaos. Heck it is almost chaos now with the code written as it is.:D

I totally agree. Plus, with any rule system consistent enforcement is key. I am just saying it doesn't bother me if an inspector has a pet peeve or wants something extra every once in a while. Its their job, their name on the inspection card, and their jurisdiction. I am not saying I support rouge inspectors!
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
A contractors job is too install the cheapest product possible unless someone can prove in writing he needs something better....?
That's not what I said (or at least not what I was trying to communicate). Basically, the inspector does not have the authority to require you to work to his desires. His/her job is to enforce the codes of the AHJ (which is usually the NEC with modifications). The inspector is not the AHJ, he/she works for them.

................. Its a race to the bottom.
You WILL NOT find me there, lol.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
You guys are tough! I'm still flailing my shovel about, looking for China!:D
 

markstg

Senior Member
Location
Big Easy
That depends on the State licensing statutes.

In Utah, inspectors are required by State law to enforce the engineers design.

Chris

Then why do I have to do a punch list, after the inspector has Passed the Job? Note, I'm not saying the the installation was not up to NEC and local requirements, just not per the Engineering Design Documents (Drawings and Specifications).
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I am just saying it doesn't bother me if an inspector has a pet peeve or wants something extra every once in a while. Its their job, their name on the inspection card, and their jurisdiction. I am not saying I support rouge inspectors!

So are you saying it wouldn't bother you if a cop had a pet peeve and wrote tickets for driving 55 in a 55 MPH zone simply because he thought the area should have 45 MPH speed limit.

An inspector may have whims and wishes but they are not codes. If an inspector wants his/her whims and wishes to be enforcible he/she needs to submit them and hope they pass through the code making and adoption process.

Other than that, they can only enforce the adopted code(s) they are supposed to be enforcing.

Roger
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If came across some dangerous work that was not technically prohibited under the NEC or local admins, would you slap a passed sticker on it?


I'm glad that you're not inspecting my jobs. :rolleyes:
Inspectors are to enforce the code as adopted it's not the inspectors decision to enforce whatever he chooses.
 

emahler

Senior Member
i think our jobs as contractors are to know the codes well enough to be able to tell an inspector he's wrong, when he is, and not capitulate just because we don't know any better...
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Based on the OP's info, it sounds as if this is a school/government project.
This may have been cited because of a specification requirement rather than a code violation.

The EI's job is only to enforce the NEC.
Job specs are not his responsibility and are not under his authority.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
The EI's job is only to enforce the NEC.
Job specs are not his responsibility and are not under his authority.


I'm pretty sure that I've read on this forum that places do exist where they enforce what's on the submitted and approved drawings even if those draws exceed what's required by the NEC.
 

R Bob

Senior Member
Location
Chantilly, VA
I'm pretty sure that I've read on this forum that places do exist where they enforce what's on the submitted and approved drawings even if those draws exceed what's required by the NEC.

That's true.

I have been involved in a lot of Fed Gov projects where the EI enforced the NEC and the job specs.

In fact, I've seen design components that were blatant NEC violations that were acceptable due to design and engineering.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
The EI's job is only to enforce the NEC.
Job specs are not his responsibility and are not under his authority.

I'm pretty sure that I've read on this forum that places do exist where they enforce what's on the submitted and approved drawings even if those draws exceed what's required by the NEC.

Someday those foreign places will get up to speed with NJ
icon14.gif
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
If I remember this correctly. One of the reasons the NEC was created was
because there were no installation standards,installers were making up their
own standards and as we all know, no two electricians think and work alike.
So due to the increasing number of fires a national standard was created
and enforced,which the electrical industry had never had before.

So an inspector or electrician making up their own rules puts us back to
square one, and the reason we need the NEC,well unless you can read
every inspectors mind before you start installing a electrical system.:smile:
 

markstg

Senior Member
Location
Big Easy
I'm pretty sure that I've read on this forum that places do exist where they enforce what's on the submitted and approved drawings even if those draws exceed what's required by the NEC.

So in those places there is no need for inspection by any other party (read the owner need not pay for any inspection by other parties) as that function is provided by the EI?

I don't think any county, city, or town has the Inspection staff to assure all aspects of the drawings and specifications are implemented.

If 130V incandescent lamps are specified, does the EI catch that the EC has installed 120V incandescent lamps.
If #14 fixture whips are specified, does the EI catch that the EC has installed #16 fixture whips.
If EMT compression couplings are specified, does the EI catch that the EC has installed set screw couplings.
If motor starters are specified to have 120V control transformers, does the EI catch that control transformers are not installed.

I say (IMHO) it is not the EI's job to catch these things, although they are required by the Specifications. Because if it was then there would be no need for anyone but the EI to assure that the Drawings and Specifications were followed.:)
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
So in those places there is no need for inspection by any other party (read the owner need not pay for any inspection by other parties) as that function is provided by the EI? I say (IMHO) it is not the EI's job to catch these things, although they are required by the Specifications. Because if it was then there would be no need for anyone but the EI to assure that the Drawings and Specifications were followed.:)

On a Federal Installation the County has no authority. It is not a part of the county, it is Federal property. There are no county inspections. It is inspected by the Army Corp of Engineers. The NEC is not recognized. The engineering specs are how the job is to be installed. The job is inspected to see that it is installed per Spec.
 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
An inspector is not the AHJ (unless local statutes empower them to be, which is not likely, and the reason for that is for consistency). The real AHJ is the community development department (or similar building department) which enforces local code. Creation or adoption of code is a function of the legislature, which is actually above the level of the AHJ. This is all very similar to the rest of our legal system.

Contrary to what Roger said, a police officer can give you a citation for driving 55 in a 55 zone, if for no other reason than he is having a bad day. Similarly, an inspector can issue a citation (fail inspection) on what ever whim he wants. They can do this so long as people are willing to roll-over and plead guilty without a fight. In the case of the cop, it is paying the ticket by mail. In the case of the inspector, it is rework.

To those that don't wish to roll over, the procedure is similar. With citation in-hand, the citizen has to go see a judge (or AHJ) to determine guilt or innocence. The judge (or AHJ) is responsible to determine if the applicable codes and statutes have been followed or not.

The judge, just like the AHJ, determines whether local ordinances have been upheld. They cannot change the laws or statutes that have been written, but they do have the authority to interpret them if there is room for interpretation. This is something that neither the cop, nor the inspector have the authority to do, and that is to make absolute interpretations of statutes--that is the job of the AHJ. The cop or inspector can speculate, and issue a citation on that speculation, but only the judge or AHJ has authority to make interpretations.

Deciding whether to adopt the NEC and/or make amendments is the responsibility of legislation. It cannot become a statute or ordinance unless it goes through the legislation. Even the NEC is completely worthless unless the local legislation decides to adopt it--at which time, the NEC becomes "Law" for that jurisdiction--with or without modification. (Some people claim that the NEC is a "guideline", but once it is adopted by a jurisdiction, it actually becomes the Law for that jurisdiction.)

One last point, both cops and inspectors can be guilty of abuse of power, and both are not immune to being removed from office for this very reason. A friend of mine had a state inspector removed from duty when the inspector thought he was dealing with a DIY homeowner and stepped grossly and abusively over the line, but it turned out that the homeowner that he intimidated was the mother of a commercial electrician that actually did the work.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I say (IMHO) it is not the EI's job to catch these things, although they are required by the Specifications. Because if it was then there would be no need for anyone but the EI to assure that the Drawings and Specifications were followed.:)

I agree with you. IMO the EI's job is code compliance not what's in the spec. or on the drawings. That job is left to the engineer or some other consultant but there are places where the EI inspects based on approved engineered drawings. The EC can change the installation but that would require new drawing with the changes to be submitted and approved.
 
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