Aarp

[brian john]

Peter you are in Lancaster PA (?) hardly the hot bed of expensive living in comparison to NYC area.

 

[growler]

Alright, but even with four hours total, we're looking at $200/hr to fix a toilet, resi. The town I work in also has a median home value over 500k and I am certain no trade is getting that much for residential service.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The fact that they are repairing a toilet make no difference. It's a service call which requires a service tech and a stocked vehicle. The company appears to be a large well run outfit that's been in business since 1965. After that long in business if they haven't figured out what the market will bear then no one has.

This is the company in question and it sure doesn't look like a small fly by night bunch of crooks.

http://www.assuredplumbing.com

This is not ment to be advertising for the company only to show that they do not appear to be one of those that make their living ripping people off. You either have a product that people want or you don't last over 40 years in business.

 

[brian john]

I need to buy a 30 amp 600 VAC bridge rectifier for a certain ATS local electronic supply house has this item for $15.00, the manufacture of the ATS has the same item for $78.00? Are they gouging? It is this way industry wide, prices vary and until we become a socialist state it is buyer beware.

 

[PetrosA]

Peter you are in Lancaster PA (?) hardly the hot bed of expensive living in comparison to NYC area.

I have Lancaster in my profile since I live closer to Lancaster than to Philly. I don't work in Lancaster, or Philly. Most of my work is in and around West Chester, Unionville and Chadds Ford, which is definitely an affluent area (unless $30,000 real estate taxes yearly is what you'd consider "chump change" ).

One thing I will say is that in spite of the general level of affluence in that area, many construction companies doing work in the area are based out of Lancaster County and it's not uncommon to see Amish crews right up to the Philly border. This has the unfortunate effect of drastically reducing salaries for those of us based in this area. In spite of the median home value being above 500k in West Chester, the average salary for an electrician in a non-union shop with 5 years experience is only about $18 per hour (compared to about $27 for union) - not really enough IMO to support a decent standard of living where you work.

 

[glene77is]

Could you explain what this means. Sorry I can't understand it.

Sparky,
Playing ball is like playing politics.
You give a little and see if it comes back.
In this poor economy,
I am inclined to try different tactics to make a buck.
Could I be in the wrong thread?
I thought this was related to the AARP article,
in some way.

:smile:

 

[brian john]

(unless $30,000 real estate taxes yearly is what you'd consider "chump change" ).
.

What one pays in realestate taxes taxes has nothing to do with what one's house is worth.

My cousin in NY pays substantially more real estate in taxes for a house 1/4 the size of mine. When one looks at America affluent areas PA does not make the lists. NY City, San Fran area, Wash DC area......

 

[bradleyelectric]

I'm not positive, but I don't believe PetrosA is a contractor and doesn't know cost of doing business. I could be wrong. My whole point is the folks that are living in West Chester are not any better of people than anyone else and someone that is in business has the right to make enough money to live in West Chester. I really don't see why people would insist that is not true.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Maybe I missed the boat on this one. The customer sign a work order before the plumber began work? Did the customer get other quotes before he signed the work order? I don't think the plumber should have budged. Some peoples rates are higher than others, thats where competition comes from. I may add a plug for $65, but another guy might do it for $20. That doesn't mean I'm shady, that's my cost of doing business. The homeowner can't, or shouldn't be able to, complain and show other, lower bids to try to get back some of the money he agreed to pay. What if GC's started doing that? Imagine doing a job for $1m, getting the PO and starting work, finishing the job, get paid in full, and then get sued and have to return some of that money because after the fact the GC found a cheaper EC.

 

[bradleyelectric]

If someone calls me and asks me if I will give them a price to change a receptacle at 5:30PM 4 days for now and I tell them $274 and they call me back and say ok, does that make me a bad person? Does that mean I make $1096/ hr? If I call in the credit card for authorization while I'm standing there with the client is that a red flag?

 

[brantmacga]

This is the company in question and it sure doesn't look like a small fly by night bunch of crooks.

http://www.assuredplumbing.com

Looks like a PSI member. :wink:


Change the colors to blue and white and it would look like their own franchise.

 

[PetrosA]

What one pays in realestate taxes taxes has nothing to do with what one's house is worth.

My cousin in NY pays substantially more real estate in taxes for a house 1/4 the size of mine. When one looks at America affluent areas PA does not make the lists. NY City, San Fran area, Wash DC area......

Boy do these arguments get twisted My point was that if people can afford to pay $30,000/year in real estate taxes, they're making a decent living. What their houses are worth is less interesting, since that value is more volatile, as recent events have shown. I certainly didn't say that my area is on par with NYC, San Francisco or DC...

I'm not positive, but I don't believe PetrosA is a contractor and doesn't know cost of doing business. I could be wrong. My whole point is the folks that are living in West Chester are not any better of people than anyone else and someone that is in business has the right to make enough money to live in West Chester. I really don't see why people would insist that is not true.

Ok, let's get one thing straight. I'm not a contractor now But... I got my first truck when I was 22 years old, and ran my own businesses for the next 15 years. So yes, I absolutely know what it costs to run one - and not only a contracting business.

One thing I know about business is this - if you run a small to medium sized business, you can't charge more than the customer is willing to pay. If you do, it will come back to bite you in the butt, as I'll bet this plumber is learning. If you can't charge what you need to make a profit or even stay in business for some reason, either lower your expenses or close up shop because the only other option is debt. That, my friends, is the American way.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Boy do these arguments get twisted My point was that if people can afford to pay $30,000/year in real estate taxes, they're making a decent living. What their houses are worth is less interesting, since that value is more volatile, as recent events have shown. I certainly didn't say that my area is on par with NYC, San Francisco or DC...



Ok, let's get one thing straight. I'm not a contractor now But... I got my first truck when I was 22 years old, and ran my own businesses for the next 15 years. So yes, I absolutely know what it costs to run one - and not only a contracting business.

One thing I know about business is this - if you run a small to medium sized business, you can't charge more than the customer is willing to pay. If you do, it will come back to bite you in the butt, as I'll bet this plumber is learning. If you can't charge what you need to make a profit or even stay in business for some reason, either lower your expenses or close up shop because the only other option is debt. That, my friends, is the American way.

Maybe you need to unlearn an untruth.

 

[PetrosA]

Maybe you need to unlearn an untruth.

Could you be more specific?

 

[brantmacga]

One thing I know about business is this - if you run a small to medium sized business, you can't charge more than the customer is willing to pay. If you do, it will come back to bite you in the butt, as I'll bet this plumber is learning.

thanks for the laugh. :smile:

 

[bradleyelectric]

He does not operate the business we are discussing as a construction company. That plumber learned a different business model than return the calls you feel like when you get back home after working all day and tell them it'll cost them $75/hr because that is what the plumber that he called to find out what he should be charging told him. His message and delivery is a lot different than most in his area of service. His marketing reaches many more people in his target market than that article ever will. He knows a lot more about how to run a residential service business than you ever will.

 

[PetrosA]

He does not operate the business we are discussing as a construction company. That plumber learned a different business model than return the calls you feel like when you get back home after working all day and tell them it'll cost them $75/hr because that is what the plumber that he called to find out what he should be charging told him. His message and delivery is a lot different than most in his area of service. His marketing reaches many more people in his target market than that article ever will. He knows a lot more about how to run a residential service business than you ever will.

Did I do something to offend you that you're attacking me so hard? For the record, I don't do service calls after hours except for family and neighbors, mostly for free. I haven't attacked the plumber either. Do I think his service guy's misrepresentation of the situation got him into this situation? Yes.

I'm not a kid, I've been around the block and sometimes I even know what I'm talking about, so please afford me a little respect.

 

[brantmacga]

Did I do something to offend you that you're attacking me so hard? For the record, I don't do service calls after hours except for family and neighbors, mostly for free. I haven't attacked the plumber either. Do I think his service guy's misrepresentation of the situation got him into this situation? Yes.

I'm not a kid, I've been around the block and sometimes I even know what I'm talking about, so please afford me a little respect.

I doubt you offended anyone, but I don't see it as an attack;

Its quite obvious you don't quite know what you're talking about, and the other member was trying to point that out to you. Hopefully for your benefit.

However long you were in business or in the trade is irrelevant; I've learned that's not a good indicator of a person's trade or business knowledge.

 

[growler]

Do I think his service guy's misrepresentation of the situation got him into this situation? Yes.

That is the real question. Ron Burley seems to think that because the plumbling service tech said that this was a "major rebuild" that he misreprensented the problem. He even goes so far as to say he lied to the customer.

Here is an angle that most customers and journalist don't consider. He refers to the plumbing contractor as "trades people" when he should be referring to them as "business people" and "salespeople". He assumes that a service tech is nothing more than a plumber in uniform but forgets that he is also a trained salesperson. A trained salesperson will normally know just how far they can go without actually breaking the law.

I trained as an insurance agent many years ago and one of the things that was taught was the difference between giving an impression about something and actually lying . Lying to people is against the law and will get a license taken but giving a person an impression without lying is just good salesmanship.

The service tech (salesperson) told the customer that it was going to be a major rebuild of a toilet. This may give the customer the impression that it will involve at lot of work but is it really a lie? He did disassemble the toilet and replace parts and then reassemble the unit. I doubt if there is a formal definition of a major toilet rebuild in existance. This puts a statement into a gray area where it can give almost any impression.

If customers don't consider service people as sales people they are just being naive. They would probably prefer to deal with a plumber that's nothing more than a plumber but there is no law against a service company training their techs to sell.

If an appliance repair person comes to a home to repair a washer and tells the customer that replacing a tub gasket or something similar is a major proceedure it's a judgement call to decide if he is lying. This may in fact be considered a major repair, who decides?

This journalist ( Ron Burley ) thinks that he is in a position to make this judgment call. He is only useing what he thinks is correct to make this judgment. He gets one other price from another plumber ( probably Joe the plumber) and quotes that, but one other estimate is meaningless unless they have been to the job site and actually know everything that was involved.

Remember that Assured plumbing didn't back down and nothing was said about any charges being filed against the company and they didn't even refund any money so they sound pretty sure of their position.

Before calling someone or some business a bunch of crooks you need a little more than the word of the customer as to what was said and how it was said. This plumbing contractor may be useing nothing more than good sales techniques that are well within the law.

Half the businesses in America over inflate the actual value of the goods and services they sell and this is considered nothing more than good salesmanship. When they cross the line and actually start to lie to people thats' when they get into trouble.

It is my opinion that if some company is useing deceptive business practices or lying to customers that they should be reported to the proper authorities but not have stories written without proof or a court judgment.

You are still innocent in this country until proven guilty of something and I don't see any proof of wrong doing.

The only thing we know for sure is that the customer was unhappy with the price ( nothing new there) but the rest is all speculation based on the opinion of a journalist and a customer.

 

[prh1700]

Sounds like he replaced almost everything in the toilet. That is a major rebuild. Sure, it is just a toilet. But the fact remains...He replaced every part [or almost ] in it. Seems major to me for that particular piece of equipment. And a skilled craftsman in his trade is a skilled craftsman. Whether it is a plumber, bricklayer, painter, electrician, insulation installer....regardless of how many tools it takes to do their job.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Did I do something to offend you that you're attacking me so hard? For the record, I don't do service calls after hours except for family and neighbors, mostly for free. I haven't attacked the plumber either. Do I think his service guy's misrepresentation of the situation got him into this situation? Yes.

I'm not a kid, I've been around the block and sometimes I even know what I'm talking about, so please afford me a little respect.

Perception really means a lot doesn't it? You think I'm offended. I just think you don't know what your talking about and try to offer a different view for you to see. I speak very frankly and directly. It doesn't mean I think I'm a better peson than you.