"Health Care Facility" requirement

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aelectricalman

Senior Member
Location
KY
Its been a little while but remembering back to my younger days( 5 yrs ago), it seems like there are some lighter restrictions on smaller med centers. We are working on a small medical center in a tenant space. There are no doctors ever present, only LPN's. There is no life support systems, there are no x rays, surgery, no patient beds (just check up beds with the roll out paper on top), no breathing apparatus'. Why would the inspector require Green MC (Hospital Grade). Seems like I should be allowed to just run MC cable. The most this place will do is take a urine test and have a cylinoid to shut off the hot water. Anyone have experience with this? Thanks.
 

Joe Villani

Senior Member
Health care facility

Health care facility

Take a look at the definition of health care facilities. It mentions nursing, and thus the requirements of 517 shall apply.

If there is any doubt I always ask: Does this facility accept medical insurance? That usually settles any arguements.:grin:
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
It seems to me that what you have described is in fact a health care facility and the patient care areas would need to comply with 517.13.

Chris
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
we were able to use mc ap (w/ equip. ground in outer jacket) along w/ insulated ground

Correct, MC-AP that is listed for use in a health care facility will have an insulated EGC in addition to the bare bonding strip in contact with the metal cable armor.

Chris
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
See definitions of Patient Care Areas in 517.2.
That does not apply. In the facility under discussion, patients are not ?examined or treated.?
Take a look at the definition of health care facilities. It mentions nursing, and thus the requirements of 517 shall apply.
No it doesn?t, and therefore no they don?t. It does not mention ?nursing,? it mentions ?nursing care.? No person is given any ?care? in this facility. They are told to take a cup and step into that bathroom. None of the special requirements of 517 are needed in such a facility.
 

aelectricalman

Senior Member
Location
KY
That does not apply. In the facility under discussion, patients are not ?examined or treated.? No it doesn?t, and therefore no they don?t. It does not mention ?nursing,? it mentions ?nursing care.? No person is given any ?care? in this facility. They are told to take a cup and step into that bathroom. None of the special requirements of 517 are needed in such a facility.

Charlie, You are right. At least in my inspectors eyes. I just met with him about 10 minutes ago and he basically walked me through his desicion as to why he desiced to go ahead and allow the install of MC cable. He stated the ground would just have to be insulated and terminated properly to the EG Bar. He also cited that there was no restriction under 517 that classified a hazardous restriction. We then went to the 330 and took a look at "Not permissiable " uses. Since there is no chorine compounds (and other stuff) being used, that standard MC was allowed. Can anyone refute this. Thanks.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
It seems to me that it wouldn't. :cool:;)

Well Charlie, we have been down this road before and it is well established that we have different views on what constitutes a health care facility.;):)

I don't read anywhere in the definition of health care facility that there needs to be invasive procedures preformed to be classified as a health care facility.

Would a building that preforms check ups only be providing medical care?

Chris
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Would a building that performs check ups only be providing medical care?
My opinion: No. Your opinion: My guess is yes. C'est la vie. C'est la guerre. C'est Lautrec. :grin:


Bottom Line: 517 provides extra safety measures, extra controls, extra power sources, etc. At some point, it becomes sensible to ask for such things, based on the hazards to a human body that are created by the processes being inflicted upon that body. "Stick out your tongue and say 'Ah' " does not seem to me to be a process that establishes a need for a backup generator or a special grounding technique.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Then what are the "check up beds with the roll out paper on top" from the OP used for?
That is the key question. But in the original description, my impression is that is just a place to sit, while the nurse (not doctor) asks questions, and perhaps (just perhaps) checks your pulse, respiration rate, and blood pressure. None of those activities place the patient at risk of electrocution, in the sense that an EKG or EEG or MRI might, or place the patient at risk of a heart attack, in the sense that a stress test might. So I conclude that these activities do not invoke the special electrical safety requirements that a health care facility would. Keep in mind that the OP stated that the most invasive procedure being undertaken is a urine test.

 
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