Light fixture said use only 90 degree supply conductors

[Pierre C Belarge]

Add me to the hack list. I guess it's better to leave the old fixture with no insulation at all, than to install a new fixture with a big pile of fiberglass to insulate the box or a fixture with remote bulbs like a pendant or a track; just because the manufacturers are playing CYA and it's a technical code violation.

Mark

It is just plain simple to try and use a different fixture, if the surface mount fixture is not suitable for the location.
This is what I was thinking, a different type of fixture more suitable for the existing wiring.

Sometimes life is just not easy

 

[busman]

It is just plain simple to try and use a different fixture, if the surface mount fixture is not suitable for the location.
This is what I was thinking, a different type of fixture more suitable for the existing wiring.

Sometimes life is just not easy

The point was that I have not seen ANY fixture in the last 5 years that did not have the standard 90C language, no matter how ridiculous the assertion.

I think that what's causing all the grief for us electricians is that this is not DIRECTLY a code requirement. It's just a requirement to follow the manufacturer's instructions. If they start including a requirement for purple wire-nuts, do you expect us to follow it? What if they require each fixture to be on an individual branch circuit with GFCI and AFCI protection?? That would provide even more CYA. (Wow - I can't believe I mentioned that. I'm sure we'll see that next year along with fixture companies buying stock in GFCI companies).

There is really no limit to what they can put on the instructions.

Mark

 

[jaylectricity]

Now, when I remove the existing fixture and find older 60? wiring and explain to the homeowner that I need to update it (at a substantial cost) and they say no, what would actually be worse, replace the old fixture or install the new one?

Just tell them that you are no longer being paid to do work for them and leave the fixture down, put the wire nuts back on the joints for safety. Walk away. Wipe hands on pants.

 

[electricguy]

Being a Hack in British Columbia wont fly here.

Safety Standards Act
Creating Unsafe conditions and condoning prohibited activities

73 (1) A person commits an offence who engages in any activity, practice or conduct that creates or may create an unsafe regulated product or causes or may cause unsafe regulated work.

This was in a handout at out last safety meeting

Ungrounded lighting outlets may be required to have a bonding jumper installed to accommodate newer fixture requirements (talk to your local safety officer) or possibly GFCI protected (code rule only applies to receptacles)
Branch circuit wiring to lighting fixtures may not be temperature rated for newer fixture installation requirements (90 deg. C) and may have to be sleeved with temperature rated, colour coded, heat shrink tubing (talk to your local safety officer)
Obvious unauthorized electrical work by nonqualified persons is NOT authorized for reconnection (Example: homeowner handy wiring)

 

[iwire]

Being a Hack in British Columbia wont fly here.

Really? :grin:

Branch circuit wiring to lighting fixtures may not be temperature rated for newer fixture installation requirements (90 deg. C) and may have to be sleeved with temperature rated, colour coded, heat shrink tubing

How does putting a sleeve over 60 insulation now make that insulation rated for 90C?

Looks like the hacking comes right down from the top. :grin:

 

[mivey]

Really? :grin:




How does putting a sleeve over 60 insulation now make that insulation rated for 90C?

Looks like the hacking comes right down from the top. :grin:

What about the high-temp sleeves for conductors? I'm thinking it is more of an external heat rejection thing.

 

[electricguy]

Really? :grin:




How does putting a sleeve over 60 insulation now make that insulation rated for 90C?

Looks like the hacking comes right down from the top. :grin:

the heat shrink i use is listed for 105C

 

[sameguy]

got thinking the "supply wires" are on the fixture, no need for heat shrink. you heat shrink to the point past connection and heat transfer?

 

[macmikeman]

I think the point of the whole thing from the installer side of the issue is to maintain the insulation integrity, not to maintain the cya from the fixture maker. I do not really give a rat if the fixture manufacturer has his butt covered or not, but I do care about mine. I maintain the insulation temperature integrity by the use of high temperature heat shrink rated above 90 deg c. As my attorney has repeatedly pointed out to me, the best defense is to have put up an offense to begin with. Meaning- if you put a 6 foot high fence around your yard, you have demonstrated to the public that you do not want unauthorized wandering about in your yard, and hence if someone does and that results in injury, you have at least a good defense against unfavorable action in a court of law.

 

[mivey]

the heat shrink i use is listed for 105C

But is it listed as a heat shield? Never thought about it, but I'm guessing no. I have used the fiber sleeves for shielding and that is what they are designed for.

 

[electricguy]

But is it listed as a heat shield? Never thought about it, but I'm guessing no. I have used the fiber sleeves for shielding and that is what they are designed for.

does this come in different colors, we cannot not recolor a conductor with a different color

 

[mivey]

does this come in different colors, we cannot not recolor a conductor with a different color

Yes, but I'm not sure how many. I don't think it would be considered re-coloring the conductor any more than conduit would

 

[iwire]

the heat shrink i use is listed for 105C

Yeah.

Your body is rated about 100F, if you wrap yourself in a blanket rated for 500F and where to stay in a 400F room for many hours would you be OK?

 

[iwire]

What about the high-temp sleeves for conductors? I'm thinking it is more of an external heat rejection thing.

It is my understanding that most of the heating in fixture wires is heat conducted from the filament, down it's stands, through the socket and into the conductors. Wrapping the conductors in a blanket only exasperates that problem. Copper is an excellent thermal conductor along with being a good electrical one.

 

[sameguy]

pig in a blanket!! heat shrink will not work, if the customer puts up to the max lamp in the fixture is rated for that wattage., is the ceiling rated to 105c??

 

[mivey]

It is my understanding that most of the heating in fixture wires is heat conducted from the filament, down it's stands, through the socket and into the conductors. Wrapping the conductors in a blanket only exasperates that problem. Copper is an excellent thermal conductor along with being a good electrical one.

Can't dispute that, but I have seen many fixtures with thermal sleeves on the wires.

 

[electricguy]

It is my understanding that most of the heating in fixture wires is heat conducted from the filament, down it's stands, through the socket and into the conductors. Wrapping the conductors in a blanket only exasperates that problem. Copper is an excellent thermal conductor along with being a good electrical one.

Yes The heat can transfer down the conductor That was one thing that seemed to be missing in this thread

 

[sameguy]

see post #28

 

[mivey]

see post #28

You get partial credit with some deductions for clarity.

 

[jaylectricity]

The insulation on the conductor isn't to shield the conductor from the heat. The heat rating is to make sure the insulation doesn't melt away, therefore exposing the conductors.

I think you guys got running off on a tangent here.