All Slope Can and Arc Fault....Bad Combination

[dbuckley]

Heck, an ohmmeter (or my t+pro) would find this problem.

Thats very true.

But I see the megger as a hidden problem detection tool (i.e. looking for a surprise the sheetrockers left) rather than something you need for troubleshooting when you know you've got a problem 'cos you've applied power and something untoward happened.

I'm not applying power to a circuit until the circuit meggers clean.

 

[electricguy61]

get rid of the arc fault breaker......

I hate AFCI's, and have "fixed" them after inspection when the homeowner can't use their vacuum or other devices. They seem to me to be junk foisted on the industry by the manufacturers.

But as noted, in this case the AFCI did it's job. The problem is with Cooper, and the fact that they didn't RECALL all these cans shows that they're not a quality company and not one I will use any longer.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Ok, a quick update.........The insulating washer I installed for the screw that holds the socket to the mounting plate did not work. There is still some contact to ground there. I ordered some 8-32 X 3/8 nylon screws to replace the steel ones. I believe that will solve it. As far as dealing with Cooper Lighting goes, next to impossible but I'm going to persue and try to get compensated for the hours spent troubleshooting their flawed product. FWIW, I still use and like the H71CAT's. No problems there.

 

[hurk27]

Ok, a quick update.........The insulating washer I installed for the screw that holds the socket to the mounting plate did not work. There is still some contact to ground there. I ordered some 8-32 X 3/8 nylon screws to replace the steel ones. I believe that will solve it. As far as dealing with Cooper Lighting goes, next to impossible but I'm going to persue and try to get compensated for the hours spent troubleshooting their flawed product. FWIW, I still use and like the H71CAT's. No problems there.

I think your going to find that as soon as the first lamp gets hot these nylon screws will melt, I found some Hi temp Teflon ones once, but don't remember where I got them, it was for a servo speaker amp with a very large heat sink in a project I was building with TO-66 case transistors.

 

[brian john]

A simple continuity test should have found this on the first go round.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Your risking all kind of liability in what your doing . Stop and become the the thorn they will not ignore. Let your supplier know they will be in the law suit.

 

[brantmacga]

As far as dealing with Cooper Lighting goes, next to impossible but I'm going to persue and try to get compensated for the hours spent troubleshooting their flawed product. . . . .

Why not get your supplier involved instead of wasting any more of your own time?

In situations like this, I always go to the branch manager, who then contacts their manufacturer rep to get the ball rolling. Your supplier should know exactly what to do.

 

[nakulak]

It would be nice if you would send a nice letter to UL and also to the consumer products safety commission, copying Cooper of course, outlining the flaw with this product.

 

[iwire]

I'm not applying power to a circuit until the circuit meggers clean.

That is funny. :grin:

In regards to general purpose branch circuits.

 

[iwire]

A simple continuity test should have found this on the first go round.

No doubt.

 

[nakulak]

a couple of links for you if you want to report the product:

http://www.cpsc.gov/about/contact.html

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/contactus/

 

[Split Bolt]

Another situation that doing a megger test at rough in would have caught. With the requirement for AFCI's on most every circuit, I run a megger test on the whole house before cover up. It is an easy process and assures that your job is "clean" of faults that may other wise be blamed on you at finish. When you have "no faults" at rough, then a fault at finish, you can be sure it is a nail, screw, or something other then your work.
In this case just running a megger test on the switch leg, without lamps in the lights, would have caught the problem in minutes.

What about the thermal overloads in the recessed lights? Since they have a neutral going to them as well, they should fail your megger test!:roll:

 

[hurk27]

What about the thermal overloads in the recessed lights? Since they have a neutral going to them as well, they should fail your megger test!:roll:

never seen a neutral go to a thermal in a can, just the hot and load conductors?

 

[iwire]

never seen a neutral go to a thermal in a can, just the hot and load conductors?

I see them all the time in some high hats, there are the type located on the j-box of the fixture not the fixture itself.

Black = line

Red = load

White = neutral

 

[Split Bolt]

Can't find a picture, but Lightolier thermal protectors (cat. # 1969) have 3 wires, black=line, white=neutral & blue=load. I know the thread was not about Lightolier, but I just wanted to throw that out there to prevent a lot of potential head scratching, hair pulling and drywall cutting!

 

[iwire]

 

[acrwc10]

What about the thermal overloads in the recessed lights? Since they have a neutral going to them as well, they should fail your megger test!:roll:

Always know what you are putting under test and how to properly test it !

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

A simple continuity test should have found this on the first go round.

Are you criticising the time it took me to find the fault? A simple continuity test did find the problem on the first go round but it takes time to undo the splices to isolate the fault.

 

[hurk27]

OK I have seen those on cans with ballast, such as MH fixtures, but most of the incandescent cans we have used just have a little two wire metal looking bug up in the back of the can.

 

[hurk27]

H'mmm ok here is the installation instructions for the can in the OP:

Installation Instructions for Halo H7451CAT Slope Ceiling Housing

on page one in the PDF is the wiring diagram showing a two-wire thermel protector.