My Current Gripe

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iwire said:
So because some manufacturer makes a POS refrigerator you feel that proves the NEC should not require GFCIs?

That is ridiculous, if this refrigerator will in fact trip a GFCI that means that if the EGC becomes open this appliance is deadly.

The NEC has no control at all over how appliances are constructed.
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Well, I've seen appliances trip GFCI receptacles that do not show ground/neutral fault when metered. The same appliance usually would not trip a GFCI breaker, for some reason.

You do love your GFCI's don't you? Do you own stock in the co's that make them?
 
jim dungar said:
Warning,
We are starting to stray.:)
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we are bored, for god's sake.

the fact that after 15 pages of comments,
we are even still mentioning electricianeering
is nothing short of a miracle.

i figured this thread by now would have migrated to a whole
different forum... someone would have hollered
"road trip"... and we'd be invading a plumbing forum....
 
And what was wrong with 1970?

Believe it or not, sonny, we had indoor plumbing back then! Even electric lights- with light bulbs that looked like, well, light bulbs. We even had a reliable, world-leading phone system.

Kind of hard to believe, since the NEC didn't require a phone outlet untill 2005. Folks doing things without a law telling them to - now there's a strange idea for you.

Indeed, the only tool I have now that wasn't around then is my cordless drill. What section of the NEC mandated that upgrade?

I don't have an official 'word count,' but it seems the NEC was a quarter the size it is now. Are we four time better off? Now, THERE'S a decent topic for discussion!
 
iwire said:
And your point is what?



Yes, GFCIs are a great safety device.




Nope.

Are you still stuck in 1970?
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My point is that appliances often trip GFI receptacles. You insist they are malfunctioning, that mfrs are not making them properly & on & on. Appliance mfrs have been making appliances much longer than electrical mfrs have been making GFI receptacles. Maybe the electrical mfrs are doing something wrong with the receps. Maybe they somehow read/analyze motor & compressor loads incorrectly. Why would the same appliance trip a receptacle but not a GFI breaker.

For years GFI receptacles could lose their GFI protection but still pass current. I saw a lot of those out & around. Sometimes, the test button would still trip it too. So a lot of them were not protecting anyone.

I just can't understand why you think it's better to force GFi's in garages, cause a lot of spoiled food & crow that the food was worth it if 1 life is saved. Then someone chimes in that they need a freezer alarm. Some help if they are out of town. I grant a garage should generally have GFI. But an appliance outlet blocked by the appliance is not likely to be used for general use. Neither are the overhead recepts that now must be GFI as well. We'll fight that one out next. I ask you again, how many people have you ever heard of being electrocuted on an appliance outlet in a garage? Can you name one? Fortunately, the breaker option exists, if panel has space for it. But I see it as the customer being forced to spend unnecessary money. Some say it's good for my business. Sometimes it is; but generally speaking, higher costs have cost me more work than they have created.

No, I'm not stuck in 1970. I turned 13 that year & turning on a light was my most involved electrical work. :D

Sooner or later, we'll find something to agree on. Until then, I sharpen my hatchet when I think of you.:lol:
 
jumper said:
Gee whiz, ya think.:) This thread was goofy to start. See post#2.



Of course it is.:p





Oh yeah.:thumbsup:



That is just plain weird.:happysad:
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That was a joke; that's why I put a laughing head on it. I hope you don't think I was serious? Debates get a little heated sometimes. I thought I made a joke for us all to laugh at.
 
jmellc said:
The jacklegged stuff is all over, in & out with whatever was once good. Still has some old K/T, old cloth NM & various newer stuff tapped in everywhere. Open boxes, 120 tapped from 240, etc. 1 of the biggest messes I have ever seen. The only sensible thing to do is slash, burn & replant.

Plus, if I could do it in smaller stages, the permit cost would escalate. $75 to 100 would be permit charge every time. I can keep it to about 150 or less if I do it in 1 job.

I am looking at a whole house rewire next few days. Maybe they will have a usable panel & breakers I can use on his house. I hate even thinking that way but we sometimes get forced into corners.
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I'm not sure what your State Codes allow, but here in Ohio - Once you have a permit, it's good for the life of the project. As long as:
1) the project starts within 12 months of issuance of the permit, and
2)work is not delayed for a period of more than 6 months
the permit is still good. So in theory, you could proced on a room by room, or an item by item schedule at 5 1/2 month increments.

Even if NC doesn't have a provision similar to this, I would like to think that any Code Official would work with you on your concern about the "multiple permit" issue. Talk to the Code Official, put together schedule of the timeframe anticipated for each portion of the work that you can go over and give to him. I bet you can work it out!
 
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