Ford Powerstroke 6.0 diesel work vehicle owners..... take note....

[iwire]

I know what you mean, I had a customer flip out lately when I quoted 8k to rewire 12oo square foot house.

Long story but understand they would not have reduced the cost if they had not screwed up.

 

[peter d]

From what I hear the previous engines were designed and built by International (Navistar), the 6.0 was designed by Ford.

Not entirely true, the design of the 6.0L was outsourced but it was to a European design consortium, not Ford.

 

[peter d]

The 6.0L is actually a great engine and used in many CDL commercial vehicles and school buses. The difference between that and the F350, 250, etc is the emissions category and that's why the 6.0 became a nightmare that continues to this day.

 

[hillbilly1]

Not entirely true, the design of the 6.0L was outsourced but it was to a European design consortium, not Ford.

Just going by what the automotive magazines said. (about as dependable as the internet :lol The CAT story I got from one of CAT's engineers.

 

[peter d]

Just going by what the automotive magazines said. (about as dependable as the internet :lol The CAT story I got from one of CAT's engineers.

The new 6.7L diesel engine was designed and built "in house" by Ford with European assistance. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?

 

[Pullnwire]

I dont drive anything unless it wears a bowtie......

I dont drive anything unless it wears a bowtie......

I have 2 LBZ duramax's with a combined mileage of 320,000 miles. No issues at all on either. There is always issues with new engine designs. The Gen1 dmax was a wreck, Now Gale banks is getting 1200 Hp out of a dmax.

THe problem is the the IH powerstroke was so bullet proof and reliable, people expected that of the following motors. Ive got 2 customers that have the 6.0 that have seen flames out the tailpipe due to a failed turbo. Emissions laws have ruined diesel motors.

 

[norcal]

I have 2 LBZ duramax's with a combined mileage of 320,000 miles. No issues at all on either. There is always issues with new engine designs. The Gen1 dmax was a wreck, Now Gale banks is getting 1200 Hp out of a dmax.

THe problem is the the IH powerstroke was so bullet proof and reliable, people expected that of the following motors. Ive got 2 customers that have the 6.0 that have seen flames out the tailpipe due to a failed turbo. Emissions laws have ruined diesel motors.

Prob worse in CA then other States, as CA has the Nazi's at the C.A.R.B. & they do as they please.
A lot of mechanics who work on diesels drive Cummins powered Dodges... But there is a joke about them, 500K mile engine in a 50K mile truck.

 

[MisterCMK]

From what I hear the previous engines were designed and built by International (Navistar), the 6.0 was designed by Ford. Ford had talked to CAT about using its motors, but wanted CAT to redesign it's engines to match Ford's motor mounts, but CAT refused. After Daimler Benz merged with Chrysler, Ford supposedly bought the rights to the Cummings engine, but later sold it. Daimler was going to change to a Mercedes diesel, but public outcry stopped that. (Mercedes is the largest diesel engine builder in the world)

You heard wrong. Cat does not make an engine that would work in the Super Duty.

Ford has never owned the rights to the 6BT Cummins, let alone this Cummings you speak of.

The 6.0 Powerstroke is a VT365 and was designed and built by Navistar.

 

[hillbilly1]

You heard wrong. Cat does not make an engine that would work in the Super Duty.

Ford has never owned the rights to the 6BT Cummins, let alone this Cummings you speak of.

The 6.0 Powerstroke is a VT365 and was designed and built by Navistar.

If you say so, but the CAT engineer that I spoke with says they do, its just the motor mounts will not work with Ford, and thats what CAT refused to change.

 

[MisterCMK]

If you say so, but the CAT engineer that I spoke with says they do, its just the motor mounts will not work with Ford, and thats what CAT refused to change.

OK, so what motor does this supposed Cat engineer claim they were going to use?

 

[hillbilly1]

OK, so what motor does this supposed Cat engineer claim they were going to use?

Probably the same one Government motors uses in the Kodiaks. He didn't say. Cat makes lots of different size motors including marine. Since he worked for Cat, I would figure he knew what he was talking about. I was quoting a lighting upgrade at one of their plants, so it was pretty obvious he worked for Cat.

 

[hurk27]

Probably the same one Government motors uses in the Kodiaks. He didn't say. Cat makes lots of different size motors including marine. Since he worked for Cat, I would figure he knew what he was talking about. I was quoting a lighting upgrade at one of their plants, so it was pretty obvious he worked for Cat.

My brother-inlaw who owns his own trucking company and has exclusively only used Cats' said Cat is getting out of making motors for any on the road vehicles, they do not want to mess with the EPA requirements and will not be supplying motors anymore that can meet them, while there are a few third party company's who will take a Cat motor and engineer it to meet the standards it is going to be very costly with much loss to the performance, he has six peterbilts, all with Cats and says as when they can no longer be repaired he with have to switch to another motor.

 

[hillbilly1]

My brother-inlaw who owns his own trucking company and has exclusively only used Cats' said Cat is getting out of making motors for any on the road vehicles, they do not want to mess with the EPA requirements and will not be supplying motors anymore that can meet them, while there are a few third party company's who will take a Cat motor and engineer it to meet the standards it is going to be very costly with much loss to the performance, he has six peterbilts, all with Cats and says as when they can no longer be repaired he with have to switch to another motor.

There will be a lot of companys getting out due to burdensome regulations, and it's looking like (if you believe the main stream media) it's not going to get better, it's only going to get worse. Cat is used in a lot of motorhomes too. They are gearing up new production plants here in Georgia to make smaller construction equipment. My son works at a plant that casts piston rings for their motors. You are probably not too far from their generator plant in Indianna, I can't remember exactly where it is, but I have been by there. The Marine plant I was at was one of the cleanest industrial facilities I've been in.

 

[Fulthrotl]

There will be a lot of companys getting out due to burdensome regulations, and it's looking like (if you believe the main stream media) it's not going to get better, it's only going to get worse. Cat is used in a lot of motorhomes too. They are gearing up new production plants here in Georgia to make smaller construction equipment. My son works at a plant that casts piston rings for their motors. You are probably not too far from their generator plant in Indianna, I can't remember exactly where it is, but I have been by there. The Marine plant I was at was one of the cleanest industrial facilities I've been in.

well, changing your business model 'cause of government regulations is not that new... :blink:

the exodus of business from California in the 80's was largely due to spiraling workers comp premiums.
arizona set up an environment favorable to large corporations and they went for it.

there is an exit strategy currently in place here for a lot of companies to move elsewhere, for cheaper
labor rates. just like the exodus overseas for manufacturing.

my first choice in work probably would have been toolmaker or machinist... it runs in the family.
that job has not kept pace with the cost of living, and the bulk of it is now in china, along with
everything in the realm of manufacturing.

and engineering? welcome to india, where any work that can be transmitted over a network cable
has gone...

irregardless of the grousing that seems a constant among electricians... we have something we do
that can't be sent over a phone wire, or put in a container ship.

the only problem is that our customers in many cases are not so fortunate, and we are all in the same boat.

 

[Fulthrotl]

THe problem is the the IH powerstroke was so bullet proof and reliable, people expected that of the following motors. Ive got 2 customers that have the 6.0 that have seen flames out the tailpipe due to a failed turbo. Emissions laws have ruined diesel motors.

i won't argue with the emissions conclusion.

well, it's back parked where it's supposed to be.

$10,060 later.

here's the quick and dirty:

engine came out, heads now have stellite valve seats,
original valves and springs, new guides... no cracks.

turbo spiffed.... vanes were stuck mid point, giving
boost lag, and some milage loss, especially in city
driving.

Bulletproof diesel provided their oil cooler, egr cooler
and oil filter manifold, etc.

ARP provided head studs, with OEM head gaskets.
whole thing is rated for more boost than OEM turbo
can supply, good for 40 lbs boost, and 500 HP.
i'm at 30 lbs boost max, and about 400 hp.

for what it's worth to folks in the southern calif. area,
i did find a good diesel builder in the chino area.
Domestic Diesel. seems to have done a very good
job overall, and when we set the scope of the work,
one of the things that was gonna be replaced was
the fan clutch... we discussed it verbally, and when
he put the formal quote together, he forgot to put it
on the parts list.... he installed it on the rebuild,
and didn't charge me for it, 'cause he missed it.
i offered to split the difference, and he wouldn't do it.

it's a $500 part.

the guy keeps his word.
those of you in socal using diesels, you might want
to keep him in mind if you have anything major go
south.

now, i need to get back to work. i have a hole in the
checking account to fill in.

 

[Fulthrotl]

now, i need to get back to work. i have a hole in the
checking account to fill in.

so i thought, anyway.

turns out.... the back up lights weren't coming on,
it was obvious 'cause when those lights are hot,
it triggers the backup camera built into the stereo.

so, when shifting into reverse, no camera... thought
something in the stereo got jiggled loose... after
three hours of troubleshooting, was deep into the
vehicle primary wiring, looking for a green with a
purple wire that was sunk to ground by the PCM
to pull in the relay that lights the backup lights.

gave up in disgust, remembering why i hate auto
wiring troubleshooting again, and figured i'd let
the mechanic of record fix it after i got my work
done... everything else works quite well...

an hour later, it magically starts working... :-/

perfect. maybe it self healed, and it's not an
intermittent. time will tell....

then, got a little flicker off the battery light.. checked
the voltage, and with the engine at 1,000 rpm, the
alternator output is 10.9 volts. should be 13.4 or so.

alternator was replaced four months ago, the only
repair this van has needed before this rebuild.

so it's under warranty.... now, if the warranty only
covered the lost days of work.....

i'm getting tired of this poop.

funny thing was, i updated the banks IQ and the
profiles on the engine tuner..... runs quite a bit
crisper now.....

and there is a new "economy" screen on the banks,
that uses the gps of the banks, and the flow thru
the injectors to measure your fuel economy....
but it shows the output in money spent on fuel since
the engine was turned on....

so it's like a taxi meter...... i'm getting 13 mpg around
town, and diesel is $4.30 where i live..... so you can
drive down the street, and watch the numbers change....
makes ya wanna barf.... i think i'm gonna turn that screen
off.

it's brutal. drove up beach blvd, to the 405 freeway, from
coast highway.... $3.50

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Geezer Alert!

Geezer Alert!

I can remember buying a new van, setting up shelving, racks, fully stocked w/plbg., HVAC parts for $10K

 

[megloff11x]

It's always best to research a big purchase, though it's hard to find the time and to sort through the information. In the internet age it's hard to trust everything you see.

All vehicles have quirks and issues. It's whether or not you can or will cope with them. On the issue of trucks, many of my friends have settled on older and with a Chevy 350, which is probably the most available and well understood engine of the last half century. While it's not up to towing an Abrams tank, it will still get most truck jobs done.

Find a friend who is a "truck guy" and have him or her help you out in your search. And be patient and wait for the right buy if you can. I know people who've had the same truck for 20 years and it was old when they got it, and others who mortgaged the house for a new one and have had nothing but troubles. I still remember when one of the kids from Chicago got a tongue lashing from one of our "redneck girls" over vehicle maintenance. He couldn't change his own oil. She'd built rigs from something she'd towed home and then fetched major parts from the junkyards.

If you're working as an electrician, your truck should be a boring affair that you fill with gas, change fluids every so often, and put in the key and go. You expect excitement and challenges wiring a house or business, not in getting to the job site.

Matt

 

[Fulthrotl]

If you're working as an electrician, your truck should be a boring affair that you fill with gas,
change fluids every so often, and put in the key and go. You expect excitement and challenges
wiring a house or business, not in getting to the job site.

Matt

amen to that....

the work van seems all sorted now... that magic problem i whined about up there....^^^?

tossed in a new alternator... started it up, and now the volts on the lug feeding the
main fuse block under the hood.... are 3.6 volts?

so, after much gnashing of teeth, the problem with every issue on the van was found at once.
there is a lead from the pair of batteries at the rear of the van up to the starter motor, where
it lands on a stud for the solenoid... a second cable also lands on that stud, and goes up to
feed the main fuse block.....

and it works better if there is a nut on that stud on the starter motor. the back cable had enough
twist and tension on it that it made good enough connection to crank the motor, but every time
something vibrated or you hit a bump, the cable feeding everything else jiggled, setting off
error codes on the ECC like a pinball machine.

there wasn't even a nut on it... just sitting there, naked.... this prompted a flashlight and suppressed
rage search and destroy mission, looking for whatever other crap hadn't been done right... and
some was found. nothing major, just enough to erode most the of confidence in the mechanic who
did the work.

air conditioning clutch not plugged in.
nut on starter motor cable missing.
fuel filter not changed. it's on the bill.
fan shroud screws missing.
main wiring loom tape ripped open
under coolant catch bottle.
main wiring loom not fully plugged into ECC.

i am just hoping the guy put together the stuff i can't get to properly. god help him if he didn't.
at this point, i'm just hoping there isn't anything i ever have to bring back during the year warranty.

$10,000 doesn't buy what it used to.

 

[kwired]

It's always best to research a big purchase, though it's hard to find the time and to sort through the information. In the internet age it's hard to trust everything you see.

All vehicles have quirks and issues. It's whether or not you can or will cope with them. On the issue of trucks, many of my friends have settled on older and with a Chevy 350, which is probably the most available and well understood engine of the last half century. While it's not up to towing an Abrams tank, it will still get most truck jobs done.

Find a friend who is a "truck guy" and have him or her help you out in your search. And be patient and wait for the right buy if you can. I know people who've had the same truck for 20 years and it was old when they got it, and others who mortgaged the house for a new one and have had nothing but troubles. I still remember when one of the kids from Chicago got a tongue lashing from one of our "redneck girls" over vehicle maintenance. He couldn't change his own oil. She'd built rigs from something she'd towed home and then fetched major parts from the junkyards.

If you're working as an electrician, your truck should be a boring affair that you fill with gas, change fluids every so often, and put in the key and go. You expect excitement and challenges wiring a house or business, not in getting to the job site.

Matt

I do not entirely agree with that last part. If the only purpose of the truck is transportation then maybe it is mostly accurate. If you depend on the truck for more than just transportation not just any truck will always do. Do you have heavy payload often or always? Do you pull heavy trailers? What kind of off road use is needed? Not all jobs are paved roads all the way to as well as on site. How many people ride to job sites in this vehicle? Vehicles with some age are going to need repairs at times there is no way around that. New vehicles are more expensive - if a repair is needed it is likely covered by a warranty. Diesel engines are typically run for long time without needing much repairs, but are usually expensive when a repair is needed. All this needs some consideration.


I used to have a F250 with 5.7 gas hog, that had no guts. When I pulled a trailer you knew you were pulling something even if not loaded much. I now have Dodge 2500 with Cummins diesel. Reasonable fuel economy, does not degrade much when pulling trailer, and you don't even know the trailer is behind you unless it is heavily loaded, but still has power to pull the heavy trailer.