Why you hire an electrician and not a plumber

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mike7330 said:
Using white PVC plumbing pipe is unsafe! What happens when the landscaper cuts into a 1 inch ?white? PVC pipe that has 480 volt site lighting circuits, that he believes is the sprinkler water pipe.

Just my 2 cents.
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Just because it is gray pipe doesn't mean it is electrical either.
 
petersonra said:
None of which makes the installation inherently unsafe.
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If you worked in the trade, you would soon learn what happens when the water pipe is exposed to sunlight, after a few years it starts to turn into to dust, and the entire mess falls apart. and that same process can take place under ground with white pvc plumbing pipe and fittings.
 
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growler said:
It could be or it could not be.

If he didn't know enough to use the right fittings did he know to ground properly?

For all we know he may have an old extension cord in that conduit and not even connect the ground wire ( I would bet on NM in the conduit as I see it all the time).


You normally only see the tip of the ice berg until you investigate farther.
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I ran into this very situation recently at a church. Sad thing is I'm sure it was a well meaning church member trying to save the church some coin. Cpvc pipe with 16 guage extension cord on a 20A breaker..... all over the place!
 

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stevebea said:
I ran into this very situation recently at a church. Sad thing is I'm sure it was a well meaning church member trying to save the church some coin. Cpvc pipe with 16 guage extension cord on a 20A breaker..... all over the place!
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The installer needs to be asked just how much coin does he save the church if it catches fire? If it does catch fire is he liable? God will likely forgive him - the general consensus of the congregation and especially the churches insurance company, may not be so forgiving.
 
petersonra said:
There is absolutely nothing unsafe or unservicable about this installation, forgetting for the moment whether it meets code or not. By itself, using plumbing pipe on its own it is not something I would be all that worried about. It is not the first time someone has used plumbing pipe of some type to run wires in, and it won't be the last.

If the OP wants to use it as leverage to get some extra work, that is fine with me. Just don't claim there is some inherent safety issue that does not actually exist.
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It's glad to see we have guys like you that promote hack work. I will stick with doing high quality work and having serious pride in what I do. I got an old toilet in my garage you can have for a j-box if you want:roll:
 
KVA said:
It's glad to see we have guys like you that promote hack work. I will stick with doing high quality work and having serious pride in what I do. I got an old toilet in my garage you can have for a j-box if you want:roll:
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He is probably right about whether or not is is safe to an extent. It likely is not going to cause a problem that results in injury, death, or property damage, does not mean it doesn't meet codes and standards. Even the install would have been done to meet codes and standards that is not a guarantee something unexpected will never happen that does cause injury, death, or property damage.
 
KVA said:
It's glad to see we have guys like you that promote hack work. I will stick with doing high quality work and having serious pride in what I do. I got an old toilet in my garage you can have for a j-box if you want:roll:
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I do not see anyone promoting anything, we all see installs that homeowners and handymen do all the time, while I have seen some very dangerous work this would not be one of them, and I agree it could be up there for years without any problems if the circuit is properly protected by OCPD's while I am not promoting this type of work it is done all the time and well there are bigger fish that need catching this minnow is too small and needs to be thrown back.

As for the commit that plumbing PVC or CPVC will turn to dust if exposed to sun or in the ground, I don't think you thought much before you made that statement, as there is millions of feet of it at pool pumps, in the ground sprinkler systems, and even on docks, so while many of us don't like to see such work we need to look more closely to what seeing something like this tells us when we do come upon things like this, if I was called to do a job at a place and see this, it would not be this I would be worried about, but I would be on guard to watch out for other violations that would be dangerous such as lamp cord wiring, over sizing OCPDs for circuits, and many other more dangerous DYS type work.

Oh by the way, white PVC pipe would be much cooler in the sun then gray so even the conductors would run cooler:lol:
 
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hurk27 said:
I do not see anyone promoting anything, we all see installs that homeowners and handymen do all the time, while I have seen some very dangerous work this would not be one of them, and I agree it could be up there for years without any problems if the circuit is properly protected by OCPD's while I amnot promoting this type of work it is done all the time and well there are bigger fish that need catching this minnow is too small and needs to be thrown back.

As for the commit that plumbing PVC or CPVC will turn to dust if exposed to sun or in the ground, I dont think you thought much before you made that statment, as there is millions of feet of it at pool pumps, in the ground sprinkler systems, and even on docks, so while many of us don't like to see such work we need to look more closly to what seeing something like this tells us when we do come upon things like this, if I was called to do a job at a place and see this, it would not be this I would be worried about, but I would be on guard to watch out for other violations that would be dangerous such as lamp cord wiring, over sizing OCPDs for circuits, and many other more dangerous DYS type work.

Oh by the way, white PVC pipe would be much cooler in the sun then gray so even the conductors would run cooler:lol:
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Just by saying the installation is safe or may be safe is promoting hack work... why even say that? This is why we have so much hack work out there because guys say "oh that's fine... it's safe... nothing wrong... i see it all the time"

Regardless if it may be safe or not it's WRONG PERIOD.
 
KVA said:
Just by saying the installation is safe or may be safe is promoting hack work... why even say that? This is why we have so much hack work out there because guys say "oh that's fine... it's safe... nothing wrong... i see it all the time"

Regardless if it may be safe or not it's WRONG PERIOD.
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Now I see why continuing ed hours are increased every few years, when we have electricians that think all PVC pipe is the same, sprinkler tubing is sunlight protected as many of the pool fittings, some of the white pvc plumbing pipe will turn to dust, the sun rays destroy the pipe a foot underground, we dig plenty of the hack jobs up, and there is little of any that looks like pipe left, after the radiation does it's work.
 
Years ago was repairing a damaged sprinkler, there were 3 or 4, 3/4" PVC pipe grouped together & the damaged one was on the bottom so cut a couple of them out of the way, turned out that someone ran a 14/2 UF inside of one of them, nothing happened but to this day I get POed when seeing white PVC used UG for electrical, but on the other hand in the 1960's the sprinkler pipe used around here was gray......
 
satcom said:
Now I see why continuing ed hours are increased every few years,
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I get the point that maybe we shouldn't say anything that may be taken to mean this is an acceptable installation.

satcom said:
when we have electricians that think all PVC pipe is the same, sprinkler tubing is sunlight protected as many of the pool fittings, some of the white pvc plumbing pipe will turn to dust, the sun rays destroy the pipe a foot underground, we dig plenty of the hack jobs up, and there is little of any that looks like pipe left, after the radiation does it's work.
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I find some of this hard to believe. I see White PVC pipe exposed to sunlight all the time, some even under pressure and still intact. I also quite often see a lot of electrical "gray" PVC pipe that turns almost white within about a year after it was installed. Dig down a just a couple inches and it is still gray, the dirt seems to block the sun, you have transparent dirt where you live?

norcal said:
Years ago was repairing a damaged sprinkler, there were 3 or 4, 3/4" PVC pipe grouped together & the damaged one was on the bottom so cut a couple of them out of the way, turned out that someone ran a 14/2 UF inside of one of them, nothing happened but to this day I get POed when seeing white PVC used UG for electrical, but on the other hand in the 1960's the sprinkler pipe used around here was gray......
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Like I said before not all gray pipe is electrical rated, I worked in a food processing plant where they ran lots of gray PVC pipe for caustic soda, acid, chlorine sanitizers as well as other chemicals. Had gray elbows and valves and other fittings to go with it. I don't know if there was anything special about this pipe or if they just used it for easy identification that it was carrying chemical products. This was mostly 3/4 and 1 inch sizes, I guess they did have some gray PVC in 2 inch through 3 or even 4 inch on some main water lines. Most water piping generally was stainless if smaller than 2-1/2 inch, but there was some gray pipe in large sizes for some reason.
 
norcal said:
Years ago was repairing a damaged sprinkler, there were 3 or 4, 3/4" PVC pipe grouped together & the damaged one was on the bottom so cut a couple of them out of the way, turned out that someone ran a 14/2 UF inside of one of them, nothing happened but to this day I get POed when seeing white PVC used UG for electrical, but on the other hand in the 1960's the sprinkler pipe used around here was gray......
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I agree there are cases where using plumbing pipe as conduit could be dangerous and what you stated above is one of them and I believe is also one of the reasons it was put in the NEC, but the installation in the OP is one that one could clearly see that it has wires in it and this problem is not there, maybe at another location but not at least in the photo provided.

As for the PVC pipe turning to dust, I have never seen this in all my years and I grew up in south Florida where most sprinkler systems were put in using common white schedule 40 PVC, My dads docks had it running down the top of the docks to hose bibs at each slip, nothing saying sunlight protected on any of it, and from what I understand some of it was in place for over 20 years, while I understand that UV rays can deteriorate PVC, but I think it takes quite a few years to do so, we even had a swimming pool that had the same type of PVC pipe to the filters and pump, it was very common in Florida, which by the way has some of the most intense sunlight in the united states, up here in Indiana it is common for sprinkler systems to use black well pipe, what is strange is the house I live in now the sprinkler system is in hard drawn copper which I have never seen before, one of the first things I did was to cross bond it to add to my GES, so now I have a whole yard of copper tied to my GES, its been in place since 1981 when this house was built.

I'm wondering if in other parts of the country there is a different type of PVC that does have a problem with sunlight? maybe it's not used in the areas I been in?

Now if I was an inspector and found plumbing pipe use, yes I would have to turn it down, but if I saw it at a home because a home owner installed it, well if it was strapped a little better I would not worry about it, but like I said, I would be on guard and looking at anything else I worked on and not assume anything was wired correctly as who knows what else you would find.

Not far from me is Gary, Indiana, and as was said, many of the older homes and buildings in the down town area have electric wires ran in the old gas lighting pipes, most electricians here already know to be on the look out for this, as it was the first RMC ever used, many have been like this since Gary was electrified back in the early 1900's and the old gas lights remove with putting electric lights in there place, but the danger of newer remodlers/builders who moved to this area who might not know that these pipe contain wire still exist and will for some time.

An old timer electrician who had done some of this work show me how to snag a fishtap around a plumbing elbow with another fish tape making a special sideways hook, he said to get the wire to round the elbow you have to have a person pushing the wire in as you pull but you could only have one elbow in the run, which worked for the gas pipe as most just went up from the basement/crawl space then 90ed out of the wall at the light.
 
Wow, this thread took on a personality of its own. Anyone notice that whoever installed this didn't use purple primer on the joints ? :slaphead:
kwired said:
Even if the install would have been done to meet codes and standards that is not a guarantee something unexpected will never happen that does cause injury, death, or property damage.
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These people don't realize that the liability is greater than what the job is worth.
 
KVA said:
It's glad to see we have guys like you that promote hack work. I will stick with doing high quality work and having serious pride in what I do. I got an old toilet in my garage you can have for a j-box if you want:roll:
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That's funny! Does the toilet have a lid? What would we call it a 16 inch round cover?
 
kwired said:
Like I said before not all gray pipe is electrical rated, I worked in a food processing plant where they ran lots of gray PVC pipe for caustic soda, acid, chlorine sanitizers as well as other chemicals. Had gray elbows and valves and other fittings to go with it. I don't know if there was anything special about this pipe or if they just used it for easy identification that it was carrying chemical products. This was mostly 3/4 and 1 inch sizes, I guess they did have some gray PVC in 2 inch through 3 or even 4 inch on some main water lines. Most water piping generally was stainless if smaller than 2-1/2 inch, but there was some gray pipe in large sizes for some reason.
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The grey plumbing pipe you saw was probably schedule 80.
 
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