culture of your business

[Rewire]

The house I live in was build in 1960. It was built with specification switches and receptacles. I have replaced two original switches that failed. (mercury silent switches). All the other switches are originals. I have found 1 worn-out outlet in the kitchen. If you have a building with a projected life of 50+ years why not install electrical equipment that will last. If you put in stuff that is likely to degrade, and perhaps fail during the design life of the building isn't this a disservice to the owner and perhaps not in the spirit of:

90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

The difference in labor between installing a 39? receptacle and a side wired clamp spec. grade may well pay for the difference in cost.

all installed items have a likelyhood of failure during the lifespan of a building that in itself would not be a justification to place a more expensive item in front of the customer .The 39? receptacle has just as high a probability of lasting the life of the building as any other as to installation time the labor is pretty much the same for one as the other. I would definatly not use 90.1 as my reasoning to install the higher cost item. Of course you can have good better and best items and each be quality items.

 

[gadfly56]

all installed items have a likelyhood of failure during the lifespan of a building that in itself would not be a justification to place a more expensive item in front of the customer .The 39? receptacle has just as high a probability of lasting the life of the building as any other as to installation time the labor is pretty much the same for one as the other. I would definatly not use 90.1 as my reasoning to install the higher cost item. Of course you can have good better and best items and each be quality items.

If the $0.39 receptacle truly has the same probability of lasting the life of the building as the $2.50 receptacle then they are, by definition, of equal quality and it's a no-brainer for choice. But we know that there are real differences, and the low cost receptacle likely has less than 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/10 the life of the higher grade one. All you have to do is replace that receptacle once in 50 or even 100 years and you could have bought the higher end receptacle 20 times over.

When I moved into my current home, nearly every outlet except for the recently remodeled kitchen was the original by-'em-by-the-bushel tract-house receptacle. After 50 years, they wouldn't hold a plug for love or money. If you slammed a door in the room, the plug would fall out. I've already replaced most of them, and I've used commercial grade only. The plug prongs will bend before the receptacle will let go (had it happen a couple times already).

 

[Rewire]

If the $0.39 receptacle truly has the same probability of lasting the life of the building as the $2.50 receptacle then they are, by definition, of equal quality and it's a no-brainer for choice. But we know that there are real differences, and the low cost receptacle likely has less than 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/10 the life of the higher grade one. All you have to do is replace that receptacle once in 50 or even 100 years and you could have bought the higher end receptacle 20 times over.

When I moved into my current home, nearly every outlet except for the recently remodeled kitchen was the original by-'em-by-the-bushel tract-house receptacle. After 50 years, they wouldn't hold a plug for love or money. If you slammed a door in the room, the plug would fall out. I've already replaced most of them, and I've used commercial grade only. The plug prongs will bend before the receptacle will let go (had it happen a couple times already).

90% of the receptacles in a home get little or no use

 

[fmtjfw]

90% of the receptacles in a home get little or no use

Interesting where did you find that statistic?

Table IV ? Receptacle Temperature Test Results
Fig. 18 ? House IL-1 Receptacle From the 1920s
Receptacle Total After After
Type Quantity Initial Cleaning Tightening Never
All 254 55 133 30 53
Age Factor 1 178 45 95 22 33
Age Factor 2 62 8 32 6 16
Age Factor 3 14 2 6 3 3

Age factor 1 grounding 1960s or newer
Age factor 2 two prong 1930 to mid 1960s
Age factor 3 two prong before 1930

for all 254 receptacles:
55 passed a heating test (prong holder and wiring screws test) as is
133 after cleaning with alcohol and plugging in 10 times to try to clean prong holders
30 after cleaning and re-torqueing the wire screws
53 never passed.

Let's assume the 53 that never passed represent the outlets that were used, that would give us about 20%, rather than 5% used.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/RESAReport.pdf

 

[brian john]

Was it a win-win, game changer, did it get you think out side the box? Or did you circle the wagons, closing the loop, with strategic vision? Did you tackle the 800 pound gorilla when you hit the ground running.

Did they serve Kool-Aid, did you walk across hot coals?

 

[brian john]

90% of the receptacles in a home get little or no use

That is a real "Wow factor":laughing:

 

[gadfly56]

90% of the receptacles in a home get little or no use

Without commenting directly on that statement, 100% of the old receptacles would not hold a plug securely.

 

[readydave8]

Was it a win-win, game changer, did it get you think out side the box? Or did you circle the wagons, closing the loop, with strategic vision? Did you tackle the 800 pound gorilla when you hit the ground running.

Did they serve Kool-Aid, did you walk across hot coals?

Hope the answer to these questions is not "it is what it is."

 

[Fulthrotl]

Was it a win-win, game changer, did it get you think out side the box? Or did you circle the wagons, closing the loop, with strategic vision? Did you tackle the 800 pound gorilla when you hit the ground running.

Did they serve Kool-Aid, did you walk across hot coals?

hey now... don't be mixing walking on fire with the other fluff and
fold newspeak.

the only purpose of walking on hot coals barefoot, unless you are
in a burning house of course, is to demonstrate that your beliefs
are often just limits you have imposed, an excuse for not
bothering to try.

the newspeak stops at the coals, and "i coulda' done that if i wanted to"
doesn't mean squat.

and after you do it, you begin to wonder what other self imposed limitations
you are laboring under, struggling mightily, and with great sacrifice, and
amazing drama.

but it's a rush afterwards. i'm not talking about the tony robbins junk...
i'm talking about a fifty year old housewife quietly, and without cosmic
new age BS, walking slowly across 30 feet of burning oak coals, slowly,
taking 40 seconds, shuffling thru them.... slowly.

no burns, no discomfort.

tony robbins is a bit different....

"Updated: 07/22/2012 10:52:58 AM PDT

SAN JOSE -- Amid inspirational talk, chanted mantras and shouts of victory
at a late-night firewalking event attended by thousands Thursday came
agonized shrieks from followers whose soles were scorched by the superheated
coals, witnesses said.
At least 21 people were treated for burn injuries after taking part in the crowning
event of the first day of a Tony Robbins function downtown, including at least
three who went to the hospital, a San Jose fire captain said."

pass the kool aid... i'm thirsty.

 

[jmellc]

How do you deliver that message to your techs? How do you define "quality"? Have you ever asked your guys to write down what they feel it means? This is something they told me I needed to do because everyone might not view it the same.

Good point. To one person, quality means the rack of conduits doesn't fall to the floor. To me, it also means the rack is straight, consistent struts, properly cut rods, etc. Pleasing to the eye.

 

[jmellc]

So you are giving business advice but in the same sentence admitting that you do not need to make any money and it is just a hobby. If I didn't need the money I would do most of my stuff for charity and then you could bet your but t that i would do an over the top job.
If I didn't need to feed my family there are a lot of things I would do different but that doesn't apply to 97% of the business owners on this board.

Dittos. While I refuse to do unsafe work and will not do slop, I sometimes have to do the minimum legal job and live with it. My family has suffered for me having this business and trying to get off the ground during the hard times of the past 4 years. Customers don't have much money, many are afraid of losing jobs, costs are high. I have to take work where I find it and to some degree have to give the customer the quality he will pay for. If I do a $1,000 job for $500 I can't make that up in volume, if there were any volume. If I can do a safe job for what he will pay I have to take it. If I know I will lose $ I can't do the job.

 

[Rewire]

Interesting where did you find that statistic?

Table IV ? Receptacle Temperature Test Results
Fig. 18 ? House IL-1 Receptacle From the 1920s
Receptacle Total After After
Type Quantity Initial Cleaning Tightening Never
All 254 55 133 30 53
Age Factor 1 178 45 95 22 33
Age Factor 2 62 8 32 6 16
Age Factor 3 14 2 6 3 3

Age factor 1 grounding 1960s or newer
Age factor 2 two prong 1930 to mid 1960s
Age factor 3 two prong before 1930

for all 254 receptacles:
55 passed a heating test (prong holder and wiring screws test) as is
133 after cleaning with alcohol and plugging in 10 times to try to clean prong holders
30 after cleaning and re-torqueing the wire screws
53 never passed.

Let's assume the 53 that never passed represent the outlets that were used, that would give us about 20%, rather than 5% used.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/RESAReport.pdf

strictly an opinion based on observation.

 

[Rewire]

Was it a win-win, game changer, did it get you think out side the box? Or did you circle the wagons, closing the loop, with strategic vision? Did you tackle the 800 pound gorilla when you hit the ground running.

Did they serve Kool-Aid, did you walk across hot coals?

we learned to LEVERAGE SYNERGY to create a PARADIGM SHIFT

 

[220/221]

spent the last few days at our ESI expo in pheonix

And you couldn't stop by and buy me a beer?

 

[Rewire]

And you couldn't stop by and buy me a beer?

how close are you to the Biltmore?

 

[220/221]

how close are you to the Biltmore?

2 miles. Camelback and 7th Street :slaphead:

 

[renosteinke]

Sharing with us what goes on at those top-secret ESI Kool-Ade fests, eh?

Yes, 'culture' is critical. Your attitude sets the tone for everyone else.

Let's say you're checking a job that was just completed. What's the first thought to enter yourt mind?
Is it "I made a lot of money?"
Is it "Gee, thats some fine workmanship?"
Is it "Another pigeon, time to pluck?"

Your attitude transmits itself in countless ways. Let's look at another situation: it's 5 minutes before quitting time, and you have maybe 20 minutes of work left. Do you:
1) Say 'be back tomorrow?" or,
2) Push on through until you're done, or,
3) Spend 15 minutes getting clearance from the customer?

Again, each choice says a lot about your approach to things.

 

[petersonra]

I can't get anyone to agree on what constitutes quality. Customers, fellow engineers here, shop people, sales men, management.

We have some guys in our shop who grind off the paint under ground lugs screwed to a panel. IMO, that just guarantees rust.

The shop foreman is convinced you need to run a ground wire from the ground bus to the DIN rail itself, as if the dozen screws holding it to the panel are not a good connection. So, he has the shop guys drill and tap the DIN rail for a screw and a ring tongue terminal. Then, just to be sure, he has them run another ground wire to a ground terminal on the DIN rail.

One panel wirer says there is a code requirement that prohibits more than 20 neutrals from being daisy chained together and refuses to wire more than that in a chain, even going to the extent of adding additional terminals to the terminal strip.

 

[fmtjfw]

I can't get anyone to agree on what constitutes quality. Customers, fellow engineers here, shop people, sales men, management.

We have some guys in our shop who grind off the paint under ground lugs screwed to a panel. IMO, that just guarantees rust.

The shop foreman is convinced you need to run a ground wire from the ground bus to the DIN rail itself, as if the dozen screws holding it to the panel are not a good connection. So, he has the shop guys drill and tap the DIN rail for a screw and a ring tongue terminal. Then, just to be sure, he has them run another ground wire to a ground terminal on the DIN rail.

One panel wirer says there is a code requirement that prohibits more than 20 neutrals from being daisy chained together and refuses to wire more than that in a chain, even going to the extent of adding additional terminals to the terminal strip.

When I worked as a factory hand building packaging equipment, we ground off the paint, used star washers and the repainted after attaching the ground. The Owner had an culture of high quality, and attempted to have zero failures in the field.

 

[brian john]

I can't get anyone to agree on what constitutes quality. Customers, fellow engineers here, shop people, sales men, management.

We have some guys in our shop who grind off the paint under ground lugs screwed to a panel. IMO, that just guarantees rust.

NO-OX-ID-A, we remove all paint and coat.