new title 24 requirements effective 01-01-14 in calif.......

[Fulthrotl]

"Effective January 1, 2014, the California Energy Commission adopted changes to the
California building Efficiency Standards (Title 24, Parts 1 and 6) that require lighting
controls and devices to be certified as properly installed and operational,
prior to issuance of occupancy permits.
The California Advanced Lighting Controls Training Program-Acceptance Technician
(CALCTP-AT) certifies acceptance technician employers and technicians. All acceptance
test technicians must be employed by an acceptance test employer that provides
support as well as quality control."

the changes are substantial. it seems they aren't kidding this time.

it's more like commissioning a LEED project than anything else.
this is gonna get interesting.... what strategy are you californicators
using to deal with this? i was looking at the registry of contractors with
the CALCTP-AT certification, and the number of individuals with the
certification, and considering pulling the CALCTP-AT as a contractor.

hm. state license. state journeyman license. LEED AP. CALCTP. now CALCTP-AT.

california contractor = someone with more certifications than customers.:dunce:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Supposed to have been doing that all along.

LTG-2A and LTG-INST forms were supposed to be filled out by the contractor and field installer, and given to the inspector at the time of final inspection.

Now I will admit that very few jurisdictions have been asking for them.

 

[Pullnwire]

The city of Irvine has required them for at least 4 years. No LTG 2a or LTG-INST = no final. And they go over it line by line, just like your high school English teacher.

 

[Sierrasparky]

So does this mean that only a certified person can sign off compliancy forms.

If so , If so then I would personally like to than those jurisdictions in CA for the lack of enforcement for this one.
if we all were doing a good job being compliant we would not be forced into this heavier compliance.

 

[MichaelKelley]

It seems that the rules are going to be harder day by day and there is not an other option except following the same for better improvement.

 

[Fulthrotl]

It seems that the rules are going to be harder day by day and there is not an other option except following the same for better improvement.

it seems that a C-10 can still self certify their own work.
however, the C-10 must be certified by a CALCTP-AT,
that they do work in compliance.

seems that the CALCTP-AT certification has some prerequisites
that will filter a lot of people out. it would seem that a contractor
would be in an advantageous position to have a CALCTP-AT
technician on the payroll, so he could maintain the CALCTP certification
of his employer.

however, a CALCTP-AT technician can only work for a CALCTP-AT
listed employer. last week, there were four of those in calif.
this week, there are ten. so i sense a trend here.

there are 23 individuals with the -AT credential..... for the entire state.

so... the best situation would be to be a C-10 license holder with a
CALCTP-AT certification, held personally. this would make you both
a CALCTP-AT technician, and a CALCTP-AT contractor at the same time.

i'll let ya know how that works out... i have a plan here..... ;-)

i strongly suspect most of the -AT certificate holders are members of
organized collective bargaining units, and those folks can only work
for signatory C-10's.... so i sense another trend here....

 

[Sierrasparky]

it seems that a C-10 can still self certify their own work.
however, the C-10 must be certified by a CALCTP-AT,
that they do work in compliance.

seems that the CALCTP-AT certification has some prerequisites
that will filter a lot of people out. it would seem that a contractor
would be in an advantageous position to have a CALCTP-AT
technician on the payroll, so he could maintain the CALCTP certification
of his employer.

however, a CALCTP-AT technician can only work for a CALCTP-AT
listed employer. last week, there were four of those in calif.
this week, there are ten. so i sense a trend here.

there are 23 individuals with the -AT credential..... for the entire state.

so... the best situation would be to be a C-10 license holder with a
CALCTP-AT certification, held personally. this would make you both
a CALCTP-AT technician, and a CALCTP-AT contractor at the same time.

i'll let ya know how that works out... i have a plan here..... ;-)

i strongly suspect most of the -AT certificate holders are members of
organized collective bargaining units, and those folks can only work
for signatory C-10's.... so i sense another trend here....

So what type of projects will require this certification.

 

[Fulthrotl]

So what type of projects will require this certification.

"This article contains administrative regulations relating to the energy building
regulations in Title 24, Part 6. This article applies to all residential and nonresidential buildings."

certificate of occupancy will not be issued until the project is commissioned and certified as in
compliance with applicable regulations.

get this:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2012publications/CEC-400-2012-004/CEC-400-2012-004-CMF-REV.pdf

and start reading. there is a lot to cover.

 

[Sierrasparky]

"This article contains administrative regulations relating to the energy building
regulations in Title 24, Part 6. This article applies to all residential and nonresidential buildings."

certificate of occupancy will not be issued until the project is commissioned and certified as in
compliance with applicable regulations.

get this:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2012publications/CEC-400-2012-004/CEC-400-2012-004-CMF-REV.pdf

and start reading. there is a lot to cover.

So you did not answer my question.
I don't have time to read through this right now. Can you give me one example where a C-10 contractor will need speacial certification to sign off his own work.

 

[sandsnow]

The city of Irvine has required them for at least 4 years. No LTG 2a or LTG-INST = no final. And they go over it line by line, just like your high school English teacher.

Yes and people comment all the time that we are the only ones or one of the few that ask for it. We do make it a point to let each job now at the beginning that the forms are required.

 

[sandsnow]

So does this mean that only a certified person can sign off compliancy forms.

If so , If so then I would personally like to than those jurisdictions in CA for the lack of enforcement for this one.
if we all were doing a good job being compliant we would not be forced into this heavier compliance.

You are exactly right. The energy commission did ride a longs and surveys of about half a dozen jurisdictions and Certified Test Technicians was one of the results.

 

[sandsnow]

This is another State of California cluster frick in the making. The State in it's infinite wisdom has done ZERO (AFAIK) outreach on the certification program. Which is about the same amount of outreach they did on the acceptance forms the last go around. Again it falls to each jurisdiction to educate itself and then you the electrician or contractor.

I've been putting together a training program on all the changes. After years of going through Code changes this is one of the biggest. Get ready boys and girls, the changes this time will be brutal. It won't be so bad if your designer is up on everything. At least it will be on the plans. If you bid a set of plans that have not been plan checked then you could be in for a rude awakening.

Currently CALCTP is the only training provider authorized to certify you. Other providers can be approved. Currently you have to train with a CALCTP "subcontractor" to get certified. There are schools other than the JATC's available. Go to CALCTP website. CALCTP was granted interim approval in the Building Energy Efficiency Standards.

Standards are linked in Fulthrottles post. See section 10-103-(A) for all acceptance requirement and specifically Section 10-103-A(e) on providers.

https://www.calctp.org/home

Brief synopsis of lighting changes

http://cltc.ucdavis.edu/publication/whats-new-title24-2013-code

Another. Scroll down for Non Res

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/20...e_to_Building_Energy_Efficiency_Standards.pdf

Get certified now! This will happen. It may be postponed like the electrician certification but it's not going away. Most people know that the longer you waited on the electrician certification, the harder and more expensive it got to be certified.

 

[Fulthrotl]

This is another State of California cluster frick in the making. The State in it's infinite wisdom has done ZERO (AFAIK) outreach on the certification program. Which is about the same amount of outreach they did on the acceptance forms the last go around. Again it falls to each jurisdiction to educate itself and then you the electrician or contractor.

I've been putting together a training program on all the changes. After years of going through Code changes this is one of the biggest. Get ready boys and girls, the changes this time will be brutal. It won't be so bad if your designer is up on everything. At least it will be on the plans. If you bid a set of plans that have not been plan checked then you could be in for a rude awakening.

Currently CALCTP is the only training provider authorized to certify you. Other providers can be approved. Currently you have to train with a CALCTP "subcontractor" to get certified. There are schools other than the JATC's available. Go to CALCTP website. CALCTP was granted interim approval in the Building Energy Efficiency Standards.

Standards are linked in Fulthrottles post. See section 10-103-(A) for all acceptance requirement and specifically Section 10-103-A(e) on providers.

https://www.calctp.org/home

Brief synopsis of lighting changes

http://cltc.ucdavis.edu/publication/whats-new-title24-2013-code

Another. Scroll down for Non Res

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/20...e_to_Building_Energy_Efficiency_Standards.pdf

Get certified now! This will happen. It may be postponed like the electrician certification but it's not going away. Most people know that the longer you waited on the electrician certification, the harder and more expensive it got to be certified.

tonight was my first night of class for the -AT certification. it's 20 hours of class time, 5 four hour classes, and the
prerequisite is that you already have the 60 hour CALCTP certification in effect, and are registered with CALCTP as such.

some comments on the highlighted observations..... yep, yep, yep, and yep.

the new standards sorta feel like LEED silver certification, both in hardware, and in mind numbing lawyer speak.

other providers for acceptance testers can be approved. i'd say that won't happen unless CALCTP flubs the dub badly.
that probably isn't gonna happen. they have been working on this for about 4 years, so anyone else who wanted to
do this would have a lot of ground work to reinvent this wheel.

there are schools other than the JATC's available. most of the folks getting the cert at this point seem to be going thru
the JATC's. i looked at some of the other schools, and they are scrambling to get this rolling, where the JATC's have
been working with this program going on three years, for the basic CALCTP cert. there are other prerequisites that
may qualify you to get this certification, but you'll have to look and see which ones apply to you.

this thing is not going away. commercial new construction, and remodel are affected, at this point.
i'd say residential will be along a bit later, but it's encompassed by the law at this point, as i understand it.

there is a push to get 300 -AT certifications issued by years end. i'd say they will make it. right now,
there is a huge incentive to make that goal, for a number of reasons.

if you have any intention of getting this certification EVER, i'd get it before the year is over. seriously.

after Jan. 01, new commercial construction, regardless of when it went thru plan check, or when the
project was approved, will have to have an -AT sign off on it, for you to get a certificate of occupancy.
the level of implementation will vary, depending on when the project was issued a permit, but
compliance to appropriate standards in place at the time of permit issuance WILL be certified by this
process.

it's a state law at this point.

when i'm done with the deal, assuming i pass, i'll post on what it entails to get the certification,
what it's worth to have it, and what it'll cost not to have it.

for what it's worth, my electrical engineer is working 7 days a week to get projects grandfathered
in before the end of the year, as the cost of lighting will be significantly higher with title 24:2014
in place. consider that when bidding work going forward. having to comply with some of this stuff
and not having money in the bid to do it would seriously suck.

 

[Sierrasparky]

tonight was my first night of class for the -AT certification. it's 20 hours of class time, 5 four hour classes, and the
prerequisite is that you already have the 60 hour CALCTP certification in effect, and are registered with CALCTP as such.

some comments on the highlighted observations..... yep, yep, yep, and yep.

the new standards sorta feel like LEED silver certification, both in hardware, and in mind numbing lawyer speak.

other providers for acceptance testers can be approved. i'd say that won't happen unless CALCTP flubs the dub badly.
that probably isn't gonna happen. they have been working on this for about 4 years, so anyone else who wanted to
do this would have a lot of ground work to reinvent this wheel.

there are schools other than the JATC's available. most of the folks getting the cert at this point seem to be going thru
the JATC's. i looked at some of the other schools, and they are scrambling to get this rolling, where the JATC's have
been working with this program going on three years, for the basic CALCTP cert. there are other prerequisites that
may qualify you to get this certification, but you'll have to look and see which ones apply to you.

this thing is not going away. commercial new construction, and remodel are affected, at this point.
i'd say residential will be along a bit later, but it's encompassed by the law at this point, as i understand it.

there is a push to get 300 -AT certifications issued by years end. i'd say they will make it. right now,
there is a huge incentive to make that goal, for a number of reasons.

if you have any intention of getting this certification EVER, i'd get it before the year is over. seriously.

after Jan. 01, new commercial construction, regardless of when it went thru plan check, or when the
project was approved, will have to have an -AT sign off on it, for you to get a certificate of occupancy.
the level of implementation will vary, depending on when the project was issued a permit, but
compliance to appropriate standards in place at the time of permit issuance WILL be certified by this
process.

it's a state law at this point.

when i'm done with the deal, assuming i pass, i'll post on what it entails to get the certification,
what it's worth to have it, and what it'll cost not to have it.

for what it's worth, my electrical engineer is working 7 days a week to get projects grandfathered
in before the end of the year, as the cost of lighting will be significantly higher with title 24:2014
in place. consider that when bidding work going forward. having to comply with some of this stuff
and not having money in the bid to do it would seriously suck.

What is claimed is that there is a 10 hour online prerequisite class.
also what does this cost?

 

[cowboyjwc]

This is another State of California cluster frick in the making. The State in it's infinite wisdom has done ZERO (AFAIK) outreach on the certification program. Which is about the same amount of outreach they did on the acceptance forms the last go around. Again it falls to each jurisdiction to educate itself and then you the electrician or contractor.

I've been putting together a training program on all the changes. After years of going through Code changes this is one of the biggest. Get ready boys and girls, the changes this time will be brutal. It won't be so bad if your designer is up on everything. At least it will be on the plans. If you bid a set of plans that have not been plan checked then you could be in for a rude awakening.

Currently CALCTP is the only training provider authorized to certify you. Other providers can be approved. Currently you have to train with a CALCTP "subcontractor" to get certified. There are schools other than the JATC's available. Go to CALCTP website. CALCTP was granted interim approval in the Building Energy Efficiency Standards.

Standards are linked in Fulthrottles post. See section 10-103-(A) for all acceptance requirement and specifically Section 10-103-A(e) on providers.

https://www.calctp.org/home

Brief synopsis of lighting changes

http://cltc.ucdavis.edu/publication/whats-new-title24-2013-code

Another. Scroll down for Non Res

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/20...e_to_Building_Energy_Efficiency_Standards.pdf

Get certified now! This will happen. It may be postponed like the electrician certification but it's not going away. Most people know that the longer you waited on the electrician certification, the harder and more expensive it got to be certified.

I haven't seen it yet, but is this kind of like the HERS raters?

Oh yeah and we've been asking for the forms for years too, but we're the only ones doing it too.:happyno:

 

[sandsnow]

there is a push to get 300 -AT certifications issued by years end. i'd say they will make it. right now,
there is a huge incentive to make that goal, for a number of reasons.

The huge push for the magic 300 is because when 300 people are certified as "AT", then all certification needs to done by a certified "AT". Until that happens, a non certified field technician can do the acceptance testing. Section 10-103-A

after Jan. 01, new commercial construction, regardless of when it went thru plan check, or when the
project was approved, will have to have an -AT sign off on it, for you to get a certificate of occupancy.
the level of implementation will vary, depending on when the project was issued a permit, but
compliance to appropriate standards in place at the time of permit issuance WILL be certified by this
process.

I really can't find this in writing, but the way it usually works is that projects submitted for approval after Jan.1, 2014 will be subject to new Code. At least that is the way our City does it. So a projectsubmitted in December will not have to have an "AT" because that job is under 2013 Standards. I suppose you could interpret it your way based on how the standards are written and we may need an official ruling from the energy commission.

Oh yeah and your probably right about certification coming to residential eventually. Depends on how strong that lobby is.

 

[sandsnow]

I haven't seen it yet, but is this kind of like the HERS raters?

Oh yeah and we've been asking for the forms for years too, but we're the only ones doing it too.:happyno:

Yeah, kind of like HERS raters.

And , NO, we're the only ones doing it.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Oh yeah and your probably right about certification coming to
residential eventually. Depends on how strong that lobby is.

The huge push for the magic 300 is because when 300 people are certified as "AT", then all certification needs to done by a certified "AT". Until that happens, a non certified field technician can do the acceptance testing. Section 10-103-A"


ok.... i was under the impression that the 300 had to appear by jan.01 to lock in calctp as the issuing authority.
that was a misunderstanding on my part.

the self proclaimed certification policy currently in place was discussed in class, but the main reason for the 300
requirement to be met by jan. 01 is administrative then, so that when the law becomes active, it can be implemented
without waiting for the other shoe to drop. makes sense. so that means this is a done deal, it's only a question of when.

here's what is said about -AT testing, from the literature....

"There are six categories of lighting controls that require acceptance testing. Thesecategories may change with each
new iteration of the California Energy Code (Title 24, part6). Current requirements go into effect on January 1, 2014.
Any project issued a buildingpermit on or after this date will be required to undergo these acceptance tests. "

i got a lot of reading to do...... :dunce:

 

[Fulthrotl]

What is claimed is that there is a 10 hour online prerequisite class.
also what does this cost?

i don't know what online prerequisite you are referring to... sorry.

as to cost......

first there is the calctp certification... that was 60 hours of my life,
about two years ago. there was a nominal fee collected, that was
returned uncashed upon your graduation.
so that was $0 out of pocket.

the calctp-at costs a $125 registry fee with the administrating organization.

the class, again from JATC, is $30, refundable if you pass.
so the class is again, $0.
you can get digital copies of all class materials on a thumb drive for $11.50

so, the whole thing is $136.50, and 80 hours of your life.

those fees apply to IBEW members. without that membership, it's a lot more money,
either from JATC, or from other providers.

you can get pricing here:

https://www.calctp.org/training-center-list

 

[YourElectricianOC]

What is claimed is that there is a 10 hour online prerequisite class.
also what does this cost?

I perused the website, and near as I can tell the 10 hour online prep coursework is free (but don't worry, they'll get your money in the end).

I've spent over a decade doing instrumentation and controls before going into business for myself. This whole thing is disgusting.