how to use this tool?

[iceworm]

... It doesn't get -40 here, but I do know that the butane solder irons, just like a butane lighter, work fine below freezing. If it's not cold enough to freeze a propane heater or a butane lighter, the butane irons should also work. ...

This is not applicable to the post, but just for fun and information:
ASTM grade propane vapor pressure goes to zero at -44F
iso-butane (lighter fuel) vapor pressure goes to zero at 11F

As one pulls vapor from the bottle, the vaporization of the liquid fuel pulls heat from the liquid, dropping the liquid temperature. Gas pressure goes down, flame goes down.

Pulling any significant propane (like a barbecue) from a bottle at -30F requires heat on the bottle - otherwise it cools off, turns into an iceball and the flame goes out. (Yep - this is true) My wife does a great job barbecuing at -30F. But she has me but an industrial hairdryer on the bottle and a blanket around both to keep the heat in.

iso-butane has about 7psig at 32F and 36psig at 77F. At 32F the flame is puny and dropping fast as the latent heat of vaporization pulls heat from the liquid. At 32F, if one wishes to have enough flame to light ones cigar - keep it in an inside pocket and don't dawdle.

I smoke my cigars outside, and amazingly they don't get very important colder than -20F:thumbsdown:

ice

 

[jim dungar]

As one pulls vapor from the bottle, the vaporization of the liquid fuel pulls heat from the liquid, dropping the liquid temperature. Gas pressure goes down, flame goes down.

Pulling any significant propane (like a barbecue) from a bottle at -30F requires heat on the bottle - otherwise it cools off, turns into an iceball and the flame goes out.

I rarely 'grill' out doors below 0?F. There is usually too much hassle to get enough flame to overcome the heat transfer of the wind against the sheet steel of the grill. Low levels of gas in the tank do not help either.

 

[K8MHZ]

Indeed a cool video. A lot of skill on display there, but a few things caught my eye:
1. It sure looks like he was using a 40/60 bar rather than 60/40! (different melting point, but still lower than the alloy used in the lead pipe and flanges.
2. Watching at it, I can't help but shudder at what looks like the world's largest cold solder joint. (That's the electronics tech in me.....)

It's not the melting point that makes the difference, although eutectic alloys have the lowest melting point. The lead in the video actually has a higher melting point than solder.

It's the transformation from liquid to solid that is of concern. A eutectic, or close to it, will transform directly from one phase to the other with no plastic stage in between. That's good for electrical. Straying from the eutectic mix will allow the alloy to exist in the plastic stage where it can be shaped and formed.

And yeah, it looks like a big cold soldered joint to me, too.

 

[K8MHZ]

This is not applicable to the post, but just for fun and information:
ASTM grade propane vapor pressure goes to zero at -44F
iso-butane (lighter fuel) vapor pressure goes to zero at 11F

As one pulls vapor from the bottle, the vaporization of the liquid fuel pulls heat from the liquid, dropping the liquid temperature. Gas pressure goes down, flame goes down.

Pulling any significant propane (like a barbecue) from a bottle at -30F requires heat on the bottle - otherwise it cools off, turns into an iceball and the flame goes out. (Yep - this is true) My wife does a great job barbecuing at -30F. But she has me but an industrial hairdryer on the bottle and a blanket around both to keep the heat in.

iso-butane has about 7psig at 32F and 36psig at 77F. At 32F the flame is puny and dropping fast as the latent heat of vaporization pulls heat from the liquid. At 32F, if one wishes to have enough flame to light ones cigar - keep it in an inside pocket and don't dawdle.

I smoke my cigars outside, and amazingly they don't get very important colder than -20F:thumbsdown:

ice

Great info, thanks!

I see why you chose your user name! I thought Michigan was a cold place to live!

 

[fmtjfw]

NEC & soldering

NEC & soldering

110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics
of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure
terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs
shall be identified for the material of the conductor and
shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar
metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing
connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar
conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and
copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum),
unless the device is identified for the purpose and
conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors,
and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for
the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect
the conductors, installation, or equipment.

110.14(A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts
shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging
the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure
connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or
splices to flexible leads.

110.14(B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with
splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding,
or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered
splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically
and electrically secure without solder and then be
soldered.

230.81 Connection to Terminals. The service conductors
shall be connected to the service disconnecting means by
pressure connectors, clamps, or other approved means.
Connections that depend on solder shall not be used.

250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding Equipment.
250.8(B) Methods Not Permitted. Connection devices or fittings
that depend solely on solder shall not be used.

250.70 Methods of Grounding and Bonding Conductor
Connection to Electrodes. The grounding or bonding conductor
shall be connected to the grounding electrode by
exothermic welding, listed lugs, listed pressure connectors,
listed clamps, or other listed means. Connections depending
on solder shall not be used.

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment
Grounding Conductors to Boxes.
(E) Solder. Connections depending solely on solder shall
not be used

393.40 Connectors and Enclosures.
(A) Connectors. Connections to busbar grid rails, cables,
and conductors shall be made with listed insulating devices,
and these connections shall be accessible after installation.
A soldered connection shall be made mechanically secure
before being soldered.

394.56 Splices and Taps. Splices shall be soldered unless
approved splicing devices are used. In-line or strain splices
shall not be used.

410.54 Pendant Conductors for Incandescent Filament
Lamps.
(A) Support. Pendant lampholders with permanently attached
leads, where used for other than festoon wiring,
shall be hung from separate stranded rubber-covered conductors
that are soldered directly to the circuit conductors
but supported independently thereof.

410.121 Solder Prohibited. No solder shall be used in the
construction of a luminaire recessed housing.

520.43 Footlights.
(A) Metal Trough Construction. Where metal trough
construction is employed for footlights, the trough containing
the circuit conductors shall be made of sheet metal not
lighter than 0.81 mm (0.032 in.) and treated to prevent
oxidation. Lampholder terminals shall be kept at least
13 mm (1?2 in.) from the metal of the trough. The circuit
conductors shall be soldered to the lampholder terminals.

520.43 Footlights.
(B) Other-Than-Metal Trough Construction. Where the
metal trough construction specified in 520.43(A) is not
used, footlights shall consist of individual outlets with lampholders
wired with rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal
conduit, or flexible metal conduit, Type MC cable, or
mineral-insulated, metal-sheathed cable. The circuit conductors
shall be soldered to the lampholder terminals.

552.10 Low-Voltage Systems.
(C) Low-Voltage Wiring Methods.
(2) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with
splicing devices that provide a secure connection or by
brazing, welding, or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy.
Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined to be mechanically
and electrically secure without solder, and then
soldered.

695.6 Power Wiring.
(D) Pump Wiring. All wiring from the controllers to the
pump motors shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, liquidtight flexible
metal conduit, or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit
Type LFNC-B, listed Type MC cable with an impervious
covering, or Type MI cable. Electrical connections at motor
terminal boxes shall be made with a listed means of connection.
Twist-on, insulation-piercing?type, and soldered
wire connectors shall not be permitted to be used for this
purpose.

.

 

[kwired]

As one pulls vapor from the bottle, the vaporization of the liquid fuel pulls heat from the liquid, dropping the liquid temperature. Gas pressure goes down, flame goes down.

Pulling any significant propane (like a barbecue) from a bottle at -30F requires heat on the bottle - otherwise it cools off, turns into an iceball and the flame goes out. (Yep - this is true) My wife does a great job barbecuing at -30F. But she has me but an industrial hairdryer on the bottle and a blanket around both to keep the heat in.

That is a problem at zero to 10 degrees as well with a lot of portable space heaters and a 100# or less propane cylinder. As you said the vaporization pulls heat from the liquid making gas pressure go down. The higher the BTU being pulled the worse it gets. You typically need to have the fuel tank in front of the heater to keep the tank warm enough to maintain fuel pressure.

 

[PetrosA]

So according to 394.56, if I run out of wirenuts, I could still do a code compliant install using solder, friction tape and vinyl tape in my JBs and the inspector would have to accept it? Cool

 

[GoldDigger]

So according to 394.56, if I run out of wirenuts, I could still do a code compliant install using solder, friction tape and vinyl tape in my JBs and the inspector would have to accept it? Cool

As long as you do it in a workmanlike manner, of course. Practice helps.

 

[K8MHZ]

So according to 394.56, if I run out of wirenuts, I could still do a code compliant install using solder, friction tape and vinyl tape in my JBs and the inspector would have to accept it? Cool

When you do it, please post pics.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Ice,

A portasol is a butane heated iron, not a torch.

Other companies make them, too.

yep... this is the ones i use...

http://www.masterappliance.com/heat-tool-products/butane-powered/ultratorches/ultratorch-ut-100si

i like it enough i've got two of them... they keep excellent temp.. and make a really cool
sound when you light them off... sounds like a baby jet engine... a high pitched whistle that
fades off when the catalytic element gets warm.

i learned soldering in the early 1970's from little asian ladies in the electronics industry,
swaging mylar and foil wound capacitors.... the foil winding on each end of the caps needed
a even, completely hot swaged surface, without inclusions, voids, gaps.... and if you got it
too hot, you damaged the dielectric between the foils.

cold solder, and you got poor DF, or dissipation factor. too hot, and you got failed hipot and
IR values.... and they were impregnated with PCB's, for added fun.

they all used large industrial irons with solid copper tips, and variacs to regulate heat.

my big complement was they said i was the only white guy they had ever seen able
to solder the big caps and not ruin them. it took about six months to get to where i
was really consistent.

the trick for me is to run the iron a bit hot, and cool it with a sponge to get the right temp
and a clean tinned tip. i use a folded paper towel, wet, and drag the tip across it to
clean and cool it, but that is how i do all my soldering.

you cool the tip slightly below the melt point, and it warms up as it warms
the fitting and the solder flows at the lowest possible temp for a clean bright tinned
connection.

imagine a small roll of toilet paper made up of two sheets of tinfoil, with a layer of
saran wrap in the middle separating them. solder the foil with an even coat of material,
and don't get the plastic hot. that's swaging.

 

[K8MHZ]

Old blue jeans are also good for hot tip cleaning, too. Or a wet sponge.

I am fond of the wet sponge, or 'caveman temperature control' myself.

 

[kwired]

So according to 394.56, if I run out of wirenuts, I could still do a code compliant install using solder, friction tape and vinyl tape in my JBs and the inspector would have to accept it? Cool

That section is not saying you can use solder as an alternative to using wirenuts, it is for knob and tube wiring and is saying you should be using soldered connections, and not so directly stating that if using other alternative connecting methods you likely need to use junction boxes and other appropriate accessories to contain those connections.

 

[ggunn]

imagine a small roll of toilet paper made up of two sheets of tinfoil...

That hurts just to think about it.

 

[broadgage]

I?m sorry, this may be a language or slang thing. What is a high street store?

The sort of shop that you find in a high street, that caters to the general public at modest prices, rather than a trade or wholsale supplier that supplies mainly trade, profesional or qaulified persons.

A high street store would typicly offer a crimping tool and assorted crimps for less than ?5, the tool MIGHT be acceptable for a DIY er to crimp connections to their car stereo, and would be typicly used by an unqaulified "electrician" who does small cash jobs for neighbours.

A proper electrician would hopefully be equiped with a better qaulity crimp tool such as may be obtained from any better electrical wholesaler, I expect to pay at least ?25, and perhaps more.

"Wire nuts" are looked upon with considerable disfavour over here, but I feel that they tend to be more reliable than crimped joints.

It must be said that UK electrical installation practices call for far fewer joint or splices than USA practices.

 

[kwired]

It must be said that UK electrical installation practices call for far fewer joint or splices than USA practices.

How many joints or splices are in a particular conductors not typically addressed at all by the NEC, there may be a few situations where it is an issue but generally is not an issue. However minimizing connections is not a bad design practice, and NEC is not supposed to be a design manual...


Hey I found one situation where it still is not a design manual

 

[broadgage]

How many joints or splices are in a particular conductors not typically addressed at all by the NEC, there may be a few situations where it is an issue but generally is not an issue. However minimizing connections is not a bad design practice, and NEC is not supposed to be a design manual...


Hey I found one situation where it still is not a design manual

I believe that compliance with the NEC does tend to lead to more splices than would occur in an otherwise similar installation in the UK.
For example, consider a lighting circuit with three switches in the same box, all from the same breaker. In the USA, AFAIK it would generaly be a requirement to land only one wire on each terminal, therefore 3 pigtails are needed, one for each switch, jointed by a wire nut or other means to the hot from the breaker.
In the UK we would put the wire from the breaker into the first switch, and use a short piece of wire from the first switch onto the next one, no wire nuts needed.
Broadly similar arguments apply to many other circuit layouts, due to the USA rule, that in general, in most cases "one wire per terminal only" In the UK, the limit in theory is that specified by the manufactuerer, in practice it is as many wires as will fit !

 

[kwired]

I believe that compliance with the NEC does tend to lead to more splices than would occur in an otherwise similar installation in the UK.
For example, consider a lighting circuit with three switches in the same box, all from the same breaker. In the USA, AFAIK it would generaly be a requirement to land only one wire on each terminal, therefore 3 pigtails are needed, one for each switch, jointed by a wire nut or other means to the hot from the breaker.
In the UK we would put the wire from the breaker into the first switch, and use a short piece of wire from the first switch onto the next one, no wire nuts needed.
Broadly similar arguments apply to many other circuit layouts, due to the USA rule, that in general, in most cases "one wire per terminal only" In the UK, the limit in theory is that specified by the manufactuerer, in practice it is as many wires as will fit !

That kind of depends on the design of the switch also. Ones with screw terminal only yes you will only have one conductor per terminal....unless you strip a section of conductor, wrap around the terminal and then continue on to the next switch with an "unbroken" conductor- but some have argued that isn't allowed on this site, yet have no real good references to back that claim up with. Other thing is some switches (usually commercial grade or better) have pressure plate type terminals that usually accept two conductors. But when we do have your mentioned three pigtails they usually come from one common junction and not three separate junctions. Wire nut fails all three switches possibly lose power. Incoming line fails at the first switch when going from switch to switch - you still lose all three.

 

[broadgage]

So according to 394.56, if I run out of wirenuts, I could still do a code compliant install using solder, friction tape and vinyl tape in my JBs and the inspector would have to accept it? Cool

I believe if properly done that it would be compliant. You might have an argument with the inspector though as it seems that some regard anything rare as being prohibited.

 

[broadgage]

I rarely 'grill' out doors below 0?F. There is usually too much hassle to get enough flame to overcome the heat transfer of the wind against the sheet steel of the grill. Low levels of gas in the tank do not help either.

Stand the gas tank in a container of water heated to blood heat. Excessive heat can be dangerous, but blood heat is no warmer than the surroundings would be on a hot day.

 

[jim dungar]

Stand the gas tank in a container of water....

This goes along with my "too much hassle".
Something about air temperature of -10?F and a bucket of water.

Still, thanks for the suggestion.