I'm helping a friend with the service on his new house. GE bonded at the meter via ground rod but he also has a CEE inside below his panel, which he bonded to the GEC inside, not at the meter. My question is, should we reroute the #4 ground off the CEE to the meter, being the first means of disconnect, or can the CEE be bonded at his panel in addition to being bonded at the meter.
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- Thread starter Jackflash
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
What do you mean by first means of disconnect? Is the service disconnect part of or adjacent to the meter?
Welcome to the Forum.
Welcome to the Forum.
The service disconnect is adjacent to the meter. He has one ground rod and it is bonded to GEC in the meter, not the service disconnect. I was surprised by there only being one ground rod and inspector passed it but I'm thinking it's because of the CEE, but it is inside the house below the panel. I guess I've never seen a situation like this.
Thank you
Thank you
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
With a concrete encase electrode no ground rods are needed but if the power company allows you can bond in the meter or at the first means of disconnect (panel) .. A meter is not a disconnecting means,
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
If the EGC from the (outside?) disconnect next to the meter to the inside panel meets the requirements for a bonding jumper for a CEE, then to my understanding the CEE can be connected at the indoor panel.
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
102 Inspector
Senior Member
- Location
- N/E Indiana
- Occupation
- Inspector- All facets
As indicated, the GEC into the meter would never be allowed around here because the utility considers that customer equipment. The code does not require a meter so I leave that battle between the owner and utility. I might mention they will not connect it, but I have no code reference to deny it and again as indicated, is actually allowed by NEC.
I understand, we only need one or the other, but the CEE is there and will be required to use. There is a 200a disconnect adjacent to the meter, and technically we could connect the GE inside the meter, or the Disco 250.24(A)(1) but that is beside the point.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The concrete encase electrode should be outside at the main panel not the interior panel. I don't see the concrete encase electrode as a bonding jumper so I don't see how you will make it continuous without some irreversible connection. If it is outside already bring it to the outside panel.
So you're saying if we reroute the GE to the disconnect from the meter, then the CEE can bond to the EGC inside the panel?
Thanks
I understand which is why I was confused on the placement, but the CEE is below the inside panel, which could be routed outside to the service disconnect if need be.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I thought it was below the outside panel. IMO, it still needs to be outside unless you can make a irreversible connection and your equipment grounding conductor is appropriately sized to the sub panel.
There is a ground rod at the outside service. The CEE comes up from below and into the inside panel, currently but could be rerouted. You don't believe the CEE can be used as a bonding jumper inside?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Imo, re-route the concrete encase electrode or fine an irreversible connection to the equipment grounding conductor of the feeder. It seems easier to just move the concrete encase electrode.
It can be moved in a sense of pulling the #4 to the disco because concrete has been poured already. Then I would just pull another #4 from the disco to the panel for a bonding jumper?
Much appreciated
Agreed
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Sorry, if:
- There's an unspliced GEC from the meter base to a ground rod, so that the CEE only needs a bonding jumper, not a GEC.
- And given the service size #4 Cu is sufficient for the CEE.
- And there's a #4 Cu from the CEE to the ground bar in the interior panel
- And there's a #4 Cu or bigger EGC in the feeder from the service disconnect to the interior panel
Then what's the code violation?
Cheers, Wayne
- There's an unspliced GEC from the meter base to a ground rod, so that the CEE only needs a bonding jumper, not a GEC.
- And given the service size #4 Cu is sufficient for the CEE.
- And there's a #4 Cu from the CEE to the ground bar in the interior panel
- And there's a #4 Cu or bigger EGC in the feeder from the service disconnect to the interior panel
Then what's the code violation?
Cheers, Wayne
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