Illegal contractors

[infinity]

I know many unlicensed electricians who do side work. They all say the same thing no permits or homeowner permits and paid in cash like they were never there. I laugh when they think that if there is a problem because they got paid in cash that they're somehow indemnified from being sued. Yeah you were never there but the customers Ring cam has you hauling a coil of Romex, a box of material, and your tool box through the front door. Tell that to the lawyers at the deposition.

There is so much unlicensed work here in NJ because the chances of getting caught are pretty slim. And then there's the licensed contractors who do jobs without permits. You really can't blame them because they are dealing with some highly incompetent inspectors who can erase their slim profit margins with nonsense some of which has been mentioned on this forum.

 

[kwired]

I know many unlicensed electricians who do side work. They all say the same thing no permits or homeowner permits and paid in cash like they were never there. I laugh when they think that if there is a problem because they got paid in cash that they're somehow indemnified from being sued. Yeah you were never there but the customers Ring cam has you hauling a coil of Romex, a box of material, and your tool box through the front door. Tell that to the lawyers at the deposition.

There is so much unlicensed work here in NJ because the chances of getting caught are pretty slim. And then there's the licensed contractors who do jobs without permits. You really can't blame them because they are dealing with some highly incompetent inspectors who can erase their slim profit margins with nonsense some of which has been mentioned on this forum.

The more time goes by after the job is completed, the less evidence is easy to produce though.

If "something happens" say 10 years later how does even a legitimate contractor prove that someone might have modified the installation and it was no longer same thing that they originally installed? Even a few months after initial install someone could have eliminated that GFCI that tripped frequently, that should not be on the original installer if a problem is related to that but might be hard to prove who did eliminate it.

 

[infinity]

The more time goes by after the job is completed, the less evidence is easy to produce though.

If "something happens" say 10 years later how does even a legitimate contractor prove that someone might have modified the installation and it was no longer same thing that they originally installed? Even a few months after initial install someone could have eliminated that GFCI that tripped frequently, that should not be on the original installer if a problem is related to that but might be hard to prove who did eliminate it.

True but that can happen even on permitted and inspected jobs. And then there's the possibility that "something happens" that is completely unrelated to the work done. My advice to these guys is make sure that everything they do is 100% code compliant.

 

[goldstar]

No matter how much you try to educate the public, the fact of the matter is that most people either don't want to spend an exorbitant amount of $$ on their construction work or want to circumvent the permit process so that their taxes don't increase. This is a preamble on the West Milford, NJ website regarding the hiring of contractors : https://www.westmilford.org/cn/webpage.cfm?tpid=2038
Can't emphasize this enough.

 

[infinity]

No matter how much you try to educate the public, the fact of the matter is that most people either don't want to spend an exorbitant amount of $$ on their construction work or want to circumvent the permit process so that their taxes don't increase. This is a preamble on the West Milford, NJ website regarding the hiring of contractors : https://www.westmilford.org/cn/webpage.cfm?tpid=2038
Can't emphasize this enough.

The tax increase thing is the biggest reason people don't want permits and inspections. Then there is the whole culture of distrusting anything that has to do with the government and that people should be free to do whatever they want with their private property.

 

[kwired]

The tax increase thing is the biggest reason people don't want permits and inspections. Then there is the whole culture of distrusting anything that has to do with the government and that people should be free to do whatever they want with their private property.

And they kind of sort of should be able to. One problem is where to draw the line of when you shouldn't be able to do anything you want.

 

[infinity]

And they kind of sort of should be able to. One problem is where to draw the line of when you shouldn't be able to do anything you want.

If you want to do your own electrical work or hire a handyman to do the shoddy work and burn your own house down then go right ahead. Problem is that these properties get bought and sold and the next guy may be stuck fixing your shoddy illegal work or worse. So where do you draw the line? I know that there are places in this country where you don't need permits or inspections which to me is pretty mind boggling.

 

[kwired]

If you want to do your own electrical work or hire a handyman to do the shoddy work and burn your own house down then go right ahead. Problem is that these properties get bought and sold and the next guy may be stuck fixing your shoddy illegal work or worse. So where do you draw the line? I know that there are places in this country where you don't need permits or inspections which to me is pretty mind boggling.

There is home inspectors for when you sell the property and like any other trade or profession there is good and bad home inspectors.

A misunderstood thing about these home inspections at selling time is so many think it is a requirement to correct the issues brought up but it is not, or at least shouldn't be. The intent is to give a report card on condition of things in the home and let both buyer and seller use that information as they see fit. The new buyer might need to fix certain deficiencies or have a hard time getting insurance for the place, lenders may not want to loan money for something that can not be insured but that is just facts of life and shouldn't be laws that you must correct those deficiencies.

 

[James L]

I know that there are places in this country where you don't need permits or inspections which to me is pretty mind boggling.

I love those places. Some are in Kansas and Missouri.

There's another one that's in between.
Overland Park, Ks requires only a General Contracting permit if multiple trades are involved. Then it doesn't matter who does the work, as long as it passes inspection.

And that should be the main point, right?

Does it matter if a GC hires Marvin the drunk to wire a house on evenings and weekends, versus hiring an electrical contractor who has Marvin the drunk wire the house on Mondey through Friday?

 

[kwired]

I love those places. Some are in Kansas and Missouri.

There's another one that's in between.
Overland Park, Ks requires only a General Contracting permit if multiple trades are involved. Then it doesn't matter who does the work, as long as it passes inspection.

And that should be the main point, right?

Does it matter if a GC hires Marvin the drunk to wire a house on evenings and weekends, versus hiring an electrical contractor who has Marvin the drunk wire the house on Mondey through Friday?

If Marvin does his drinking in the evening or on the weekend, maybe?

 

[roger]

NC does a good job of policing non licensed contracting. I have known of a few cases where the violator has been sentenced to jail time, this is a recent case.

RESPONDENT: James Earl Weaver, Weaver Electric CASE FILE NUMBER: 2020-355 LOCATION: Union County Civil action initiated in Wake County Superior Court resulting in the entry of a Court Order on March 30, 2022, whereby James Earl Weaver is in contempt from a previous injunction from engaging in the business of electrical contracting as defined in Article 4, Chapter 87 of the General Statutes of North Carolina, until such time respondent has been issued a license from the Board. The defendant was assessed with 30 days in jail at Wake County Jail and the costs of this action.

In each NCBEEC newsletter they post all electrical contracting violations and penalties.

Here is the November letter.

https://www.ncbeec.org/new-newsletter-available/

 

[kwired]

NC does a good job of policing non licensed contracting. I have known of a few cases where the violator has been sentenced to jail time, this is a recent case.



In each NCBEEC newsletter they post all electrical contracting violations and penalties.

Here is the November letter.

https://www.ncbeec.org/new-newsletter-available/

I think such charges here are just misdemeanor charges. A fine and the offender goes back out and continues doing wiring installs.

There aren't many still doing this for projects that do require permits though particularly projects that will require new service and POCO intervention as the POCO's are not supposed to energize new services without permit notification or other approval by the AHJ. There is still exemption from wiring permits for most agricultural installations and that is where you are more likely to see unlicensed installers around here. In a state that is heavily driven by the farm economy I don't see them getting the law changed anytime soon on requiring those ag installs to require the permits. They are more concerned and put more effort into laws concerning environmental impacts by farming at this time.

 

[infinity]

NC does a good job of policing non licensed contracting. I have known of a few cases where the violator has been sentenced to jail time, this is a recent case.



In each NCBEEC newsletter they post all electrical contracting violations and penalties.

Here is the November letter.

https://www.ncbeec.org/new-newsletter-available/

He was in contempt of a previous injunction which means that he was probably warned or fined a number of times before it got as far as jail time.

 

[roger]

He was in contempt of a previous injunction which means that he was probably warned or fined a number of times before it got as far as jail time.

The ones I have heard about are repeat offenders but usually not many times. Pretty much one or two judgements against them and they are locked up.

 

[drcampbell]

I work with a guy this same thing happened to, it's shameful that stuff like this is permitted to happen

When you create a system gives capital the decision-making power, it's inevitable that decisions will boil down to questions of (usually short-term) cash flow, and intangibles (such as Marine-Corps aviation-mechanic training) will get deeply discounted.

Ayn Rand didn't get much right, but this is one of the exceptions:
“When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work, and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you ... you may know that your society is doomed.”

 

[infinity]

The ones I have heard about are repeat offenders but usually not many times. Pretty much one or two judgements against them and they are locked up.

You have to wonder about these people who choose to simply ignore laws that they don't like. I wonder if Mr. Weaver will pick up right where he left off when his completes his sentence.

 

[ramsy]

"when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work, and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you ... you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Randa

Ayn Randa must follow corporate immunity from criminal prosecution, as described by Ralph Nadar's podcast last week.

 

[ramsy]

I don't see them getting the law changed anytime soon on requiring those ag installs to require the permits.

They could always adopt Owner-Builder permits, which allows unlicensed contractor activity under owner liability, since municipality is indemnified.

 

[Ken_S]

When you create a system gives capital the decision-making power, it's inevitable that decisions will boil down to questions of (usually short-term) cash flow, and intangibles (such as Marine-Corps aviation-mechanic training) will get deeply discounted.

Ayn Rand didn't get much right, but this is one of the exceptions:
“When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work, and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you ... you may know that your society is doomed.”

While I agree with the quote, I can't say that it applies here. After looking into this, not all military MOS codes translate into air frame and power plant experience. It seems that back in 2012 there was an effort to help our service personnel transition their military experience into a civilian job. So the faa has an entire list of MOS codes and what they would qualify you for.

 

[ramsy]

While I agree with the quote, I can't say that it applies here. After looking into this, not all military MOS codes translate into air frame and power plant experience. It seems that back in 2012 there was an effort to help our service personnel transition their military experience into a civilian job. So the faa has an entire list of MOS codes and what they would qualify you for.

Please elaborate how to check if my AFSC 462x0 qualifies for a civilian counterpart with the FAA?