New service, how to prep for future solar?

suemarkp said:
If you want more margin in a 200A panel using the solar at the opposite end of the bus, pick a panel with a 225A bus. This give you more margin over the 40A limit for solar on a 200A bus. Finding which panels have a 225A bus can be harder now, as the panel rating tends to be the breaker rating. But I think Eaton CH are 225 and some of the QO's are 225. In the end, 225 -vs 200 should cost about the same, so get the bigger one.
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I've got a 225A QO. I did see the 120% rule on that.
 
brantmacga said:
No just to the attic. The service equipment will be difficult to access one construction is complete. I was going to run some conduit from this trough up to a more accessible spot in my attic.
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I see, still if this conduit is simply to house the conductors from the PV array to the equipment in the garage I think 2" sounds excessive. Only reason I see to go that big is if you are really afraid the wire pull may be difficult because of many bends or a long conduit run to the attic.

Additionally if your PV system is large, say more than 5 strings of panels or so then the presence of that many conductors in that conduit will require de-rating of the conductors so significant that a second conduit may become necessary(NEC 310.15(C)(1)) . Hard to say for sure until you know more like everyone else is saying but if you need to run conduit now you may benefit from 2 smaller pipes rather than one large one.

It's not too often I see a residence requiring more than 1 - 1" conduit up to the PV array but perhaps you are building a larger system than average, and an extra conduit won't hurt anything.
 
brantmacga said:
I appreciate your response, all good info to know right now.

I have two systems in mind at the moment. Either the Schneider Pulse or Generac PWRCell 2. I have been speaking with Schneider already about some of their products I'll have in my house when it's finished, and it would integrate seamlessly with their Pulse Backup Controller. What they don't have is generator integration. There's a spot for it to land in their panel, but it doesn't do anything. They are releasing a new energy management software later this year, but couldn't say if the generator support would be part of it.

PWRCell 2 integrates battery, PV, and generator in one controller. I know they had some issues with V1, but V2 looks very interesting.
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AInterestin I have not seen much about the PWRcell 2 and have not installed this newer system, but I am a generac dealer and have done a lot of repair/service work on the previous generations of Generac PWRcell systems. I could not find an installation manual for the PWRcell 2 system in the installer resource area on Generac website, but based on what I can see there is no PV support for the new PWRcell inverter. It basically looks to be an inverter for the battery storage, and it seems they assume a separate AC-coupled PV system will provide the PV production. One positive, no more nightmares dealing with the SnapRS devices.
The Schneider XW Pro was a really awesome off-grid inverter. Hopefully Schneider is going to be successful with this new system. It looks like the inverter is only 7.7kW, too small for my typical customer.
 
brantmacga said:
I've got a 225A QO. I did see the 120% rule on that.
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That will work great! The 120% rule math applied to that panel looks like this: 225A bus rating x 1.2 = 270A max feed onto bus (Utlity breaker + 1.25*inverter current). 270A - 200A main breaker rating = 70A max PV breaker. 70A / 1.25 = 56A max continuous inverter current.

There are lots of options on the market that fit on a 60A breaker, and they can be load-side connected in the panel as long as the breaker is located at the opposite end of the bus from the main breaker. You will want to select a system that can restrict it's utility backfeed to 10 kW to keep the POCO happy. most systems will have the ability to maximize self consumption by discharging the batteries some at night so that you can fill them with solar power during the day. In that way, you can install a larger PV array without curtailing output due to the utility restrictions.

I would be looking at Powerwall 3, Franklin WH (will need a separate AC coupled solar inverter), Midnite AIO, or Sol-Ark (will need to pair with a 48V battery bank). There are lots of others out there as well. Make sure you get a system that is 9540 and 9540A.
 
Another thing I do is install a class 320A meter split the service into two,
There are various advantages for that.
One is I can set a Non ATS service disconnect and a smaller ATS.
Then I size the ATS & panels to the generator, no need to do 'load shed' or a 'Energy Management System' or less of one anyway.
The other thing you can do is use one service disconnects just for solar, but not practical if your doing energy storage.
Sorry about the loss of your home.
 
One option that I did at a house recently where they said they want provision for batteries and PV: 200a service panel. Put all the large/not backed up loads in that, run a 100A/125A sub feed to a sub that will have the backed up loads. Either now or later run that 100A feeder thru a sol-ark. There are other options of course, but if you went with the sol-ark, put in 12x12x24 wireway between the 2 panels , the sol-ark goes on top of it. .
 
Investigate a solar install carefully.
I’ve commissioned solar on our system and people spend 30k+ on these systems. For a $250 a month bill they could put the $30k in a 5 year CD and pay the power bill for 10+ years.
We have a 62 year old man that installed a $60k system on his house. He won’t live long enough to see a ROI.

Georgia Power doesn’t allow net metering. You are paid the avoided energy rate, which for us is about 3.2¢ per kWh.
Unless they have changed in the last year..

The only people that I talk to that say they would do it again are those that are allowed to net meter. And not all of them want to go through it again.

I have a lady that bought a house with Solar on it. She wanted to get it up and running. This system had the micro investors under each panel. 2 out of 16 were working. She exported 2 kWh in 16 months.
 
Hv&Lv said:
Investigate a solar install carefully.
I’ve commissioned solar on our system and people spend 30k+ on these systems. For a $250 a month bill they could put the $30k in a 5 year CD and pay the power bill for 10+ years.
We have a 62 year old man that installed a $60k system on his house. He won’t live long enough to see a ROI.

Georgia Power doesn’t allow net metering. You are paid the avoided energy rate, which for us is about 3.2¢ per kWh.
Unless they have changed in the last year..

The only people that I talk to that say they would do it again are those that are allowed to net meter. And not all of them want to go through it again.

I have a lady that bought a house with Solar on it. She wanted to get it up and running. This system had the micro investors under each panel. 2 out of 16 were working. She exported 2 kWh in 16 months.
Click to expand...

Well here are the economics of my power bill.

My summer power bill average is $560. My fall/winter/spring average is $300/mo. In the summer we average 2500 kWh, all other months average 1800 kWh.

I am very hopeful post-rebuild my usage will be sub-2000 kWh in the summer and 1500 kWh all other months. I invested a lot in windows, air sealing, insulation, high efficiency heat pump, etc.

If my utility usage averaged 1000 kWh throughout the year, my summer bill would be $200/mo and all other months $150/mo. If i could get my usage to 650 kWh from the grid, my bill would be $120/mo year round.

I have no interest in net metering, only offsetting my grid usage. I would like to give as little money as possible to Georgia Power.

It looks like with the passage of new trump tax bill, solar tax credits for residential are ending this year.
 
Here's another dumb idea I have. I'm looking at GPC's rate plans, and there is a "super off-peak" rate of 2.2c per kWh. I ran some numbers in a spreadsheet of my highest usage day in June of last year, and if I could run my house on batteries only from 2PM to 11PM (30 kwh needed), with the batteries recharging from 11PM to 7AM, my power bill would be $80/mo.

I am completely dumb (yes) to think that instead of putting solar panels on the house I could just install the batteries I'd need anyway and use this cheap rate plan?

I'm getting ahead of myself in that I really need to finish the house and see what my actual usage is, but it's a compelling thought.
 
brantmacga said:
Here's another dumb idea I have. I'm looking at GPC's rate plans, and there is a "super off-peak" rate of 2.2c per kWh. I ran some numbers in a spreadsheet of my highest usage day in June of last year, and if I could run my house on batteries only from 2PM to 11PM (30 kwh needed), with the batteries recharging from 11PM to 7AM, my power bill would be $80/mo.

I am completely dumb (yes) to think that instead of putting solar panels on the house I could just install the batteries I'd need anyway and use this cheap rate plan?

I'm getting ahead of myself in that I really need to finish the house and see what my actual usage is, but it's a compelling thought.
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You could do that. But don't forget to add the fuel cost surcharge. 3.82 cents per kwh. Batteries are getting cheap. Under $220 per kwh.

 
brantmacga said:
Here's another dumb idea I have. I'm looking at GPC's rate plans, and there is a "super off-peak" rate of 2.2c per kWh. I ran some numbers in a spreadsheet of my highest usage day in June of last year, and if I could run my house on batteries only from 2PM to 11PM (30 kwh needed), with the batteries recharging from 11PM to 7AM, my power bill would be $80/mo.

I am completely dumb (yes) to think that instead of putting solar panels on the house I could just install the batteries I'd need anyway and use this cheap rate plan?
Click to expand...
:unsure:
 
Hv&Lv said:
Investigate a solar install carefully.
I’ve commissioned solar on our system and people spend 30k+ on these systems. For a $250 a month bill they could put the $30k in a 5 year CD and pay the power bill for 10+ years.
We have a 62 year old man that installed a $60k system on his house. He won’t live long enough to see a ROI.

Georgia Power doesn’t allow net metering. You are paid the avoided energy rate, which for us is about 3.2¢ per kWh.
Unless they have changed in the last year..

The only people that I talk to that say they would do it again are those that are allowed to net meter. And not all of them want to go through it again.

I have a lady that bought a house with Solar on it. She wanted to get it up and running. This system had the micro investors under each panel. 2 out of 16 were working. She exported 2 kWh in 16 months.
Click to expand...
It is worth noting that not everyone does solar for strictly financial reasons. I have 16KW and already make more than I use, but Im adding another 16Kw because.....why not. I need a roof over 2 shipping container thing so why not use solar panels. Im nuts. lots of people are nuts 🙃
 
electrofelon said:
It is worth noting that not everyone does solar for strictly financial reasons. I have 16KW and already make more than I use, but Im adding another 16Kw because.....why not. I need a roof over 2 shipping container thing so why not use solar panels. Im nuts. lots of people are nuts 🙃
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, I think that’s a great idea.
You can install and save installation costs, get the panels at a discount, get a roof AND generate.
I believe you can net meter?
The problem I see is the transformer size. Will your poco upsize or will they charge you thousands to upsize?
 
Hv&Lv said:
Believe it or not, I think that’s a great idea.
You can install and save installation costs, get the panels at a discount, get a roof AND generate.
I believe you can net meter?
The problem I see is the transformer size. Will your poco upsize or will they charge you thousands to upsize?
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Yes we have net metering. We do have a $1.00-$1.84 charge per DC KW, depending on the utility. My existing 16KW system is grandfathered without that charge. I'm not going to tell him about the additional 16 KW and see if they notice. If they do I'll tell them I trimmed some branches 😂. My transformer is 25 KVA and only 8 years old, I'm gunna make it work. Pretty sure it will be okay, the AC size of the system will be only 29KVA, I think the transformer will love it.
 
tom_tom_tale said:
You could do that. But don't forget to add the fuel cost surcharge. 3.82 cents per kwh. Batteries are getting cheap. Under $220 per kwh.

Click to expand...

ahh good catch.The fuel surcharge added would put my bill around $165/mo, so, double.

I love how they word this in the rate schedule.....
The amount calculated at the above rate will be increased under the provisions of the Company's effective Fuel Cost Recovery Schedules in the manner ordered by the Georgia Public Service Commission, including any applicable adjustments.
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What it should say is, "...Will be increased under the provisions....in the manner we've lobbied the Georgia PSC for..."
 
electrofelon said:
My transformer is 25 KVA and only 8 years old, I'm gunna make it work. Pretty sure it will be okay, the AC size of the system will be only 29KVA, I think the transformer will love it.
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But of course the POCO may have something to say about it.
 
brantmacga said:
Well here are the economics of my power bill.

My summer power bill average is $560. My fall/winter/spring average is $300/mo. In the summer we average 2500 kWh, all other months average 1800 kWh.

I am very hopeful post-rebuild my usage will be sub-2000 kWh in the summer and 1500 kWh all other months. I invested a lot in windows, air sealing, insulation, high efficiency heat pump, etc.

If my utility usage averaged 1000 kWh throughout the year, my summer bill would be $200/mo and all other months $150/mo. If i could get my usage to 650 kWh from the grid, my bill would be $120/mo year round.

I have no interest in net metering, only offsetting my grid usage. I would like to give as little money as possible to Georgia Power.

It looks like with the passage of new trump tax bill, solar tax credits for residential are ending this year.
Click to expand...
Solar would never pay off for me, I’m running two totally electric houses (both occupied) my highest bill is $250 a month total. I could do hydro, if the government would allow me, which is much cheaper, but still wouldn’t have a good ROI.
 
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