12-2 NM through a hole

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infinity said:
Sure looks like the box fill requirements may have been exceeded.
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???

Not a 3.5 deep box?...I can't tell with my monitor.


I can see there is no screw sticking out the back...so unless it's a clip, where is the EGC?


(No offense Nemo)
 
I also don't see any support near the boxes.....334.30.

I also gotta ask, what's the teflon tape for? Or is that the plumbers pouch?
 
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celtic said:
???

Not a 3.5 deep box?...I can't tell with my monitor.


I can see there is no screw sticking out the back...so unless it's a clip, where is the EGC?


(No offense Nemo)
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The boxes and work was not completed, yes, she was all grounded. The dope tape? If remember correctly, that is where I teamed up with a pal/plumber, and put in a sump pump. Dope tape or Scotch 33, you don't want to be caught short-handed either way ;)
 
splinetto,
One cable per hole used to be the norm here as well - then some guys got all the inspectors together and knocked some sense into them that so many holes were turning framing into Swiss cheese and that it made more sense to use a larger hole with more through it. Since then I get inspectors looking for "cable burns" from fiction during pulling and asking if they were pulled together. Some without ANY substantiation claim only two cables per hole - some three... If they pull that crap I chuck a code book at them (figuratively) and tell them to find it... If given an inch they take a mile.... Next thing you know - they are enforcing their own mis-guided standards of work on the masses - thats what the code is for. A clearer minimum standard. Asking for or enforcing much more is an abuse of authority IMO.

And yes - the notion that cables are supporting each other is wrong - as Bob so eloquently pointed out...
 
e57 said:
splinetto,
One cable per hole used to be the norm here as well - then some guys got all the inspectors together and knocked some sense into them that so many holes were turning framing into Swiss cheese and that it made more sense to use a larger hole with more through it. Since then I get inspectors looking for "cable burns" from fiction during pulling and asking if they were pulled together. Some without ANY substantiation claim only two cables per hole - some three... If they pull that crap I chuck a code book at them (figuratively) and tell them to find it... If given an inch they take a mile.... Next thing you know - they are enforcing their own mis-guided standards of work on the masses - thats what the code is for. A clearer minimum standard. Asking for or enforcing much more is an abuse of authority IMO.

And yes - the notion that cables are supporting each other is wrong - as Bob so eloquently pointed out...
Click to expand...

Even with non-shielded, what in theory, is the arguement with not running cables together? To me, the more holes you drill, the more you damage it structurely.
Someone mind telling me what I am missing exactly?
 
splinetto said:
iwire said:
No, that is not through a hole in a framing member.

Don't forget to the NEC there is a difference between securing and supporting.
where does it explain the diff?
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Not when it comes to NM through a bored hole in wood. 334.30(A) considers cable through bored holes to be both supported and secured.
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Well they say it does, then they say it does not, you still have to securely fasten it at the box with an approved means.
 
76nemo said:
Even with non-shielded, what in theory, is the arguement with not running cables together? To me, the more holes you drill, the more you damage it structurely.
Someone mind telling me what I am missing exactly?
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Where I am at least - cable methods were SHUNNED clear until the mid-sixties. The preferred methods were black-iron pipe (later RMC, and EMT) in apartment buildings around 4 stories and more, and K&T for residential. (Where the rules are still strictly one CONDUCTOR per hole) that thinking carried over in the old school of inspectors at at time when the general population was using much less in terms of power, and evidence suggests that 210.52 (as we know it now) was just a twinkle in someones eye. I have actually herd some of those old inspectors (of whom all are thankfully now retired) state that allowing 'romex was the day craftmanship in the trade died'. So yeah - I think I see where thinking of one CABLE per hole came from, and I'm glad it was rethunk.... ;)
 
Boy, y'all haven't had much to do today :D.

Splinetto- How about one hole with four NMs that are 'on edge', not flat? Each one is resting on the bottom of the hole, and none are "supporting" another. I can't see that as a violation of support and it is multiple cables on the hole.

(I also think multiples aren't a problem.)
 
480sparky said:
I wonder.... Splinetto, have you ever installed a cable tray?

And what do you do if two NM cross each other in an attic?
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I have never installed cable tray however I do look forward to do it and you might think this as odd but in an attic when my cables cross they do not touch eachother......Dont tell me that you guy do that too....I have already lost sleep over the muliple wires per hole....But I do have to say my work looks good.
 
splinetto said:
I have never installed cable tray however I do look forward to do it and you might think this as odd but in an attic when my cables cross they do not touch eachother......Dont tell me that you guy do that too....I have already lost sleep over the muliple wires per hole....But I do have to say my work looks good.
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I need to see some pictures of your work... you crack me up... :grin: :grin: :grin:
 
stickboy1375 said:
I need to see some pictures of your work... you crack me up... :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I agree with you all I am a little OCD however the way I do it is all I know. I have worked around alot of electricians ,in my area, and that is how we ALL do it.. I pulled some homeruns they other day and every time I look at them all nice strraight and neat...I chuckle just because I know if you guys saw it you would reallt think Im crazy
 
splinetto said:
I agree with you all I am a little OCD however the way I do it is all I know. I have worked around alot of electricians ,in my area, and that is how we ALL do it.. I pulled some homeruns they other day and every time I look at them all nice strraight and neat...I chuckle just because I know if you guys saw it you would reallt think Im crazy
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I like to think my work is top notch , but dont think I'm drilling 1 hole per wire.. or 3 or 4 for that matter;) :grin:
 
Where NM cables containing 2 or more current-carrying conductors are bundled together and pass through wood framing that is to be fire or draft stopped using thermal insulation or sealing foam, the allowable ampacity of each conductor must be adjusted in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(2)(a).
This requirement applies to only wood framing and has no effect unless you bundle more than 9 current-carrying conductors together.
 
nm thru holes?

nm thru holes?

E3605.4.4 ? where more than two NM cables containing two or more current carrying conductors pass thru wood framing that is to be fire or draft stopped , the ampacity of these conductors must now be adjusted per table E3605.3
This "new" code section in the 2006 IRC would limit the # of wires passing thru a hole unless the ampacity was adjusted and figured into the installation. This is something inspectors do not generally do in the field so it might be safe to say there is a limit on how many wires can pass thru certain holes. At least thats the way I see it.
Only two cables passing thru one hole is O.K., It was found that with more than two cables there is a potential for excessive build up of heat.
This would apply to electrical penetrations thru fire blocks, draft stops, and thru top plates. (code commentary)
 
e57 said:
Where I am at least - cable methods were SHUNNED clear until the mid-sixties. The preferred methods were black-iron pipe (later RMC, and EMT) in apartment buildings around 4 stories and more, and K&T for residential. (Where the rules are still strictly one CONDUCTOR per hole) that thinking carried over in the old school of inspectors at at time when the general population was using much less in terms of power, and evidence suggests that 210.52 (as we know it now) was just a twinkle in someones eye. I have actually herd some of those old inspectors (of whom all are thankfully now retired) state that allowing 'romex was the day craftmanship in the trade died'. So yeah - I think I see where thinking of one CABLE per hole came from, and I'm glad it was rethunk.... ;)
Click to expand...


wow. I think you have just converted me. I'm for going back to knob and tube now. you think some of those guys will come out of retirement to teach us younguns how to do it right ?
 
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