14gage wire for light switch?

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DrSparks said:
It is a code violation to run a circuit more than 80% capacity continuously, unless every part of the circuit is rated for it.
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I think what donresqucapt was getting at is that as long as the ocpd and conductor sizes are matched correctly there shouldn't be issues when people (who won't care about the 80% rule) try to load up a circuit. Remember that cbs are listed to carry 100% of their rating.
 
DrSparks said:
It is a code violation to run a circuit more than 80% capacity continuously, unless every part of the circuit is rated for it.
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The 80% rule has more to do with heat buildup in panel boards. Otherwise running a circuit continuously at 100% presents to real hazard.
 
mbrooke said:
Why does it matter? Iwire took something out of context and everyone else seems to be fixated on it now. :roll:
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That crazy iwire guy, he actually wants to know the background of those he is having conversations with.


What a nut case he is. :D
 
iwire said:
That crazy iwire guy, he actually wants to know the background of those he is having conversations with.


What a nut case he is. :D
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But why would background matter in such a conversation, especially theory? Does being an engineer vs an electrician vs ect automatically make or break what I say? There is only one law of physics (except quantum mechanics:p).
 
peter d said:
Could you point out what was taken out of context, exactly?
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Here is one. I was fired up, advocating inspectors question and challenge AFCIs.

In terms of AHJ its not their job to blindly follow authority.
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By which I meant all authority figures be it police officer or judge has a moral job (not their actual day to day job) to question the laws they enforce and protest those they feel are incorrect, but was taken at face value:



http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=170894&page=4&p=1663813#post1663813

And yes I am well aware questioning what they enforce is not part of the job description.


Here is another example, starting here there was a disagreement between me an Mivey regarding a connector in a You Tube video:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=170744&page=22&p=1663593#post1663593

He was speaking about all installations in general when I thought he was just talking about what was in the video. I even admitted I was stuck on a simple splice:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=170744&page=24&p=1663960#post1663960

To which Iwire again turns into this:

'what other types of splices are there besides 3 wire splices'
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http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=170744&page=31&p=1664673#post1664673
 
mbrooke said:
But why would background matter in such a conversation, especially theory?
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It's well beyond the realm of theory at this point, you've basically proposed that we overhaul our system so that it matches the British system.

Does being an engineer vs an electrician vs ect automatically make or break what I say?
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It does when you speak authoritatively on matters that affect electricians and electrical contractors.

I'll simply say this - unless you are under the active employment of an electrical contractor, or have extensive hands on, paid experience in the trade, you would be wise to stop calling yourself an electrician. :thumbsup:



There is only one law of physics (except quantum mechanics:p).
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But different countries have adopted different methods to deal with those laws of physics. There is not a one size fits all approach.
 
mbrooke said:
But why would background matter in such a conversation, especially theory? Does being an engineer vs an electrician vs ect automatically make or break what I say?
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You could be a high school physics teacher (ect) and talk electrical theory and maybe know more than the average electrician. What you wouldn't know is about running a contracting business or maybe any other sort of business.

Many ideas look great on paper but when it comes to practical application they suck.

The European Union looked pretty good as a conceptual idea and look how that's working out.
 
DrSparks said:
It is a code violation to run a circuit more than 80% capacity continuously, unless every part of the circuit is rated for it.
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Code violation or not, it is still not a real world problem to load a circuit to the point where the OCPD opens, assuming that the OCPD is correctly matched to the conductor size.
 
Just looking at news accounts anecdotally, the bigger cause of residential fires is the overloading of extension cords which are not adequately protected by OCPD rather than overloading of fixed wiring.
Add in poor terminations of receptacles and cord caps to that mix.
 
peter d said:
It's well beyond the realm of theory at this point, you've basically proposed that we overhaul our system so that it matches the British system.
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Nope, consider some their practices as ways as which we can improve the quality and cost of our electrical installations. A direct copy would be impractical.


Some aspects like ampacities based on conditions of use rather one size fits all I know you would support, especially considering the cost and labor reduction. However, such a concept would need to be discussed from a theoretical perspective first.


It does when you speak authoritatively on matters that affect electricians and electrical contractors.
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And as far as I know theory, code, and physics are behind everything an electrician works with and installs. Those who write the code, make the products and do the testing have titles other then electrician. Our trade is a combined effort.

I'll simply say this - unless you are under the active employment of an electrical contractor, or have extensive hands on, paid experience in the trade, you would be wise to stop calling yourself an electrician. :thumbsup:
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Of course, because you don't agree with what I am saying. By discrediting me it creates a feel good defense, theory being if I did hands on work Id know testing is extra effort. Of course its extra effort, but Id rather walk away knowing my work is satisfactory. Quality is not an accident, its hard effort.


What I am taking away from these conversations is that some would rather leave behind inadvertent code violations then take pride in their work. The CMPs know that and just adds more safety factor to the code making installations even harder for electricians.


But different countries have adopted different methods to deal with those laws of physics. There is not a one size fits all approach.
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Thats true, but their are also strengths and weaknesses to each method. If something can better our system, why not consider it?
 
mbrooke said:
Of course, because you don't agree with what I am saying.
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Yeah, you got it. :lol::happyno: Actually, I have agreed with a lot of what you say, particularly about AFCI's, GFP and local fusing. But you're completely changing the argument. This is not about disagreeing with you, it's about you calling yourself an electrician when you are not one.




By discrediting me it creates a feel good defense, theory being if I did hands on work Id know testing is extra effort.
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You discredit yourself when you represent yourself as something that you are not.

These are some simple questions that should be easy to answer:

How many years have you worked in the trade as a full time electrician, collecting a paycheck from an electrical contractor?
What type of apprenticeship did you do?
What trade school did you attend?
Do you hold any state or county licenses?
What type of work have you done? Whether you wired a 10X10 addition, a convenience store, a super Walmart or a high rise, what is your experience in the trade?
Have you ever done a job start to finish where you planned it and completed it, bought or specified all the materials, and had it inspected?

Doing small jobs for friends and family or on your own house doesn't count. That makes you a diyer, not an electrician.
 
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peter d said:
Yeah, you got it. :lol::happyno: Actually, I have agreed with a lot of what you say, particularly about AFCI's, GFP and local fusing. But you're completely changing the argument. This is not about disagreeing with you, it's about you calling yourself an electrician when you are not one.
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But Iwire does not agree with much of what I say, and I know you do not agree with insulation resistance and loop testing. My history only came into question after I said somethings that upset him, and others seem to be following suit.



You discredit yourself when you represent yourself as something that you are not.

These are some simple questions that should be easy to answer:

How many years have you worked in the trade as a full time electrician, collecting a paycheck from an electrical contractor?
What type of apprenticeship did you do?
What trade school did you attend?
Do you hold any state or county licenses?
What type of work have you done? Whether you wired a 10X10 addition, a convenience store, a super Walmart or a high rise, what is your experience in the trade?
Have you ever done a job start to finish where you planned it and completed it, bought or specified all the materials, and had it inspected?

Doing small jobs for friends and family or on your own house doesn't count. That makes you a diyer, not an electrician.
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I do not see other members being interrogated or having to disclose personal information out in the public forum like this.
 
mbrooke said:
But Iwire does not agree with much of what I say, and I know you do not agree with insulation resistance and loop testing. My history only came into question after I said somethings that upset him, and others seem to be following suit.
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I'll let Iwire answer this, but I highly doubt he was upset.





I do not see other members being interrogated or having to disclose personal information out in the public forum like this.
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You can answer most of those questions without giving away any personal information.
 
mbrooke said:
I do not see other members being interrogated or having to disclose personal information out in the public forum like this.
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Oh, it has happened a good number of times and if they could back up their claims they usually divulged them.

Roger
 
mbrooke said:
Show me the posts.
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I'm really not the motivated or interested to search back through 1,353,600 posts, I was just pointing out a fact, you can believe it or not.

Roger
 
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