14gage wire for light switch?

[robert pitre]

I notice that electrician has been using 14gage wire from light switch ,to lights , and the power come from a 20amp breaker that feeds a room . Is this aloud? Does anyone know were this is at in NEC code book. What about 3 way light switches that uses 14-3 and Gets it power off 20amp that feeds living room? Can it be that the lights want exceed more than 15 amps! :happysad:

 

[roger]

What he is doing is for some reason thought to be acceptable by many but, it is not, read 210.19.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No it is not allowed. The switches and switch legs are part of the branch circuit and should be size appropriately. If they use a 15 samp breaker then it would be compoliant

 

[mwm1752]

240.4(D)

 

[user 100]

I have seen this one quite a bit in some older homes where devices were fed through the ceiling boxes( have never liked this method)-they would go 12 for the recs, but would pigtail out to a stretch of 14 for the sw leg-all while on a 20amp ocpd. I don't think it was legal then and I know it isn't today-210.19 does apply.

 

[templdl]

I think the electricians justify it as being a tap rule. The caviat is that a lignt s not a correctly sized OCPD as required by the 10 or 25' tap rule.
Their interpretation is definitely a code violation.

 

[GoldDigger]

I think the electricians justify it as being a tap rule. The caviat is that a lignt s not a correctly sized OCPD as required by the 10 or 25' tap rule.
Their interpretation is definitely a code violation.

If they have any justification at all, it is by analogy to the situation for motors, but the difference is that there the motor overload does provide recognized overload protection for the wire.
And so their analogy fails.

 

[mbrooke]

Code violation as stated, 240.4 (D). Is there a danger? None.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If you would run #18 fixture wire from the switch to the fixture, it would be code compliant.

 

[mbrooke]

If you would run #18 fixture wire from the switch to the fixture, it would be code compliant.

Doesnt anything say that 120 volt power circuits in a dwelling must be 14 gauge and larger? At least I thought I saw it somewhere but could be wrong.

 

[Ponchik]

Doesnt anything say that 120 volt power circuits in a dwelling must be 14 gauge and larger? At least I thought I saw it somewhere but could be wrong.

Table 310.106(A) shows the minimum of #14 copper however section 240.4(D)(1) allows smaller conductors. But I don't know if we can use #18 or #16 as branch circuit conductors.

 

[Ponchik]

According to 240.4 (d)(1 & 2) we can use #18 & 16 as long as we meet their conditions. HMMMM interesting.

 

[iwire]

Code violation as stated, 240.4 (D). Is there a danger? None.

Still having a problem distinguishing between facts and opinions?

 

[mbrooke]

Still having a problem distinguishing between facts and opinions?

I clearly stated two facts:

1. Its in violation of 240.(4) D

2. No danger exists in reality


Not sure where I said "I think we should do x instead of y"?

 

[mbrooke]

Table 310.106(A) shows the minimum of #14 copper however section 240.4(D)(1) allows smaller conductors. But I don't know if we can use #18 or #16 as branch circuit conductors.

My take is you can not, but there could be a loophole Im unaware of.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Table 310.106(A) shows the minimum of #14 copper however section 240.4(D)(1) allows smaller conductors. But I don't know if we can use #18 or #16 as branch circuit conductors.

You can't use them as branch circuit conductors, but you can tap fixture wire in those sizes to the branch circuit conductors to feed a fixture. 240.5(B)(2)

 

[DrSparks]

The OP stated that the #14 extended from the wall switch to the ceiling fixture. Clearly, this fact renders the argument moot as the length almost certainly exceeds the limitations of the tap rule. Also, overrating NM cable is just bad in any case, whether or not it could be interpreted to be allowed by code. I would not do it. However, the actual ampacity of #14 cable is 20amps ;-)

 

[Electric-Light]

Example: Two LED ballasts located within the same luminaire can use 18 AWG within it, but interconnecting wires between lumunaires can not be less than the ampacity of the branch.


There are UL listed lamp sockets with a receptacle or a socket to lamp bushing that legally allows something to be plugged into a light socket. A 14 AWG wire to the light switch can allow a 1,500W space heater plugged into a socket holding a 300W light bulb continuously.

 

[DrSparks]

Example: Two LED ballasts located within the same luminaire can use 18 AWG within it, but interconnecting wires between lumunaires can not be less than the ampacity of the branch.

Well, the fixture has been approved by Underwriter's Laboratories ;-) Your branch wiring has not! :lol:

 

[ActionDave]

I clearly stated two facts:

1. Its in violation of 240.(4) D

2. No danger exists in reality


Not sure where I said "I think we should do x instead of y"?

The BIG question is, How do we test for it?