220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
- Thread starter jzoll
- Start date
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electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Are you saying you have an electrical contractor on the job who doesn't have knowledge of or access to the NEC?
Are you saying you have an electrical contractor on the job who doesn't have knowledge of or access to the NEC?
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Jzoll
Your profile states "instructor", what kind of instructor?
Pierre
Jzoll
Your profile states "instructor", what kind of instructor?
Pierre
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
The answer is three feet, and 30" width.
No need to argue!
The answer is three feet, and 30" width.
No need to argue!
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
The 3ft and 30 inches is code .Often it is broken.Years ago it was common to see the AC parked under the meter.I am sure your inspector will write a tag on this if not followed.No bushes in that area either.We do allow grass.
The 3ft and 30 inches is code .Often it is broken.Years ago it was common to see the AC parked under the meter.I am sure your inspector will write a tag on this if not followed.No bushes in that area either.We do allow grass.
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
The requirement comes from Section 110.26(A) which requires this workspace for "equipment...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized...". In my opinion that leaves a lot of room for interpretation as to what constitutes requireing work while enegized. We all agree that workspace should be provided in front of panels. I feel comfortable in requireing it in front of an A/C disconnect that contains a fuse or breaker. But what about a disconnect that is only a disconnect. No fuse, no breaker. What makes this disconnect more likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, etc. while energized than a light switch? I'm not saying the space shouldn't be there, but I'm looking for a reply to give to the contractor who doesn't want to change it if I write it up.
The requirement comes from Section 110.26(A) which requires this workspace for "equipment...likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized...". In my opinion that leaves a lot of room for interpretation as to what constitutes requireing work while enegized. We all agree that workspace should be provided in front of panels. I feel comfortable in requireing it in front of an A/C disconnect that contains a fuse or breaker. But what about a disconnect that is only a disconnect. No fuse, no breaker. What makes this disconnect more likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, etc. while energized than a light switch? I'm not saying the space shouldn't be there, but I'm looking for a reply to give to the contractor who doesn't want to change it if I write it up.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
I've always allowed the A/C disconnect to be installed as Accessible. I don't write it up if it's mounted above the compressor. I'm of the same opinion, if you have to work on the disconnect you can shut the breaker off.
Russ
I've always allowed the A/C disconnect to be installed as Accessible. I don't write it up if it's mounted above the compressor. I'm of the same opinion, if you have to work on the disconnect you can shut the breaker off.
Russ
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
If there is a problem with the A/C not turning on and it is a fused diconnect, the first thing the electrician will do (at least when I was one) would be to open the disco and measure voltage into and out of the disco. I know you could use continuity for testing the fuse, but honestly, how many people do/did the same thing I am talking about?
I ask for the clearance and I get it.
If there is a problem with the A/C not turning on and it is a fused diconnect, the first thing the electrician will do (at least when I was one) would be to open the disco and measure voltage into and out of the disco. I know you could use continuity for testing the fuse, but honestly, how many people do/did the same thing I am talking about?
I ask for the clearance and I get it.
rickg
Member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Examination while energized, how else do you check for voltage at the disconnect. I require work space in front of these disconnects in my towns.
Rick
ps
I have always wondered about light switches meeting this rule. If we require work space in front of light switches you would never see a switch above a kitchen counter.
Examination while energized, how else do you check for voltage at the disconnect. I require work space in front of these disconnects in my towns.
Rick
ps
I have always wondered about light switches meeting this rule. If we require work space in front of light switches you would never see a switch above a kitchen counter.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Simple solution,install a breaker lock out on the breaker in question.Here the 30 in.side and 36 in. back is enforced but it is allowed to be breaker locked if the area winds up being encroached by the compressor
Simple solution,install a breaker lock out on the breaker in question.Here the 30 in.side and 36 in. back is enforced but it is allowed to be breaker locked if the area winds up being encroached by the compressor
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
That would get us passed but we both know the electrician won't use that lockout.Neith will the service man working on a buil in oven or dishwasher.But it does cover our butt that we met code.
That would get us passed but we both know the electrician won't use that lockout.Neith will the service man working on a buil in oven or dishwasher.But it does cover our butt that we met code.
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
More specific than just 110.26(A), how about 110.26(F)(2)
110.26(F)dedicated equipment space
(2)outdoor. ***** *** *** *** *** ********* *** ***** **************** The working clearance space shall include the zone described in 110.26(A).
This would require the clearences regardless of the issue of servicing or maintenance. It states that outdoor equipment SHALL have the CLEARENCES of 110.26(A) the equipment doesn't have to fall under the other requirements of 110.26(A)
More specific than just 110.26(A), how about 110.26(F)(2)
110.26(F)dedicated equipment space
(2)outdoor. ***** *** *** *** *** ********* *** ***** **************** The working clearance space shall include the zone described in 110.26(A).
This would require the clearences regardless of the issue of servicing or maintenance. It states that outdoor equipment SHALL have the CLEARENCES of 110.26(A) the equipment doesn't have to fall under the other requirements of 110.26(A)
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Binney I`m not going out to my truck to get my code book.But when you install the lock out on a breaker NEC has been met.It`s up to the service tech to use what they have supplied.So the code would be met
Binney I`m not going out to my truck to get my code book.But when you install the lock out on a breaker NEC has been met.It`s up to the service tech to use what they have supplied.So the code would be met
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
A lockable disconenct on the line side of the outside disconnect does not change the work space requirment found in 110.26.
Don
A lockable disconenct on the line side of the outside disconnect does not change the work space requirment found in 110.26.
Don
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
The pullout, disconnect or whatever else it can be called is required, as Don just posted, to have the working clearance per 110.26, there are no exceptions!!! This ruling is here to protect the technician, whether it be an HVAC person or electrician. The lockout does not rule out the disconnect requirement for this piece of equipment, unless it is an industrial location, 440.14 & 440.14 exception #1.
If there is a problem with space, you are permitted to mount the disconnect on the equipment, 440.14.
Pierre
The pullout, disconnect or whatever else it can be called is required, as Don just posted, to have the working clearance per 110.26, there are no exceptions!!! This ruling is here to protect the technician, whether it be an HVAC person or electrician. The lockout does not rule out the disconnect requirement for this piece of equipment, unless it is an industrial location, 440.14 & 440.14 exception #1.
If there is a problem with space, you are permitted to mount the disconnect on the equipment, 440.14.
Pierre
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
440.14. Location. Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment. The disconnecting means shall be permitted to be installed on or within the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment.
If on or within is readily accessible, then with the average house A/C, I can't see why above it wouldn't be.
As far as 110.26 is concerned, it seems it would be ok to install a disconnect on top of a walk in cooler for a compressor, so why not above the A/C unit. I still think you can shut the power off to it if you have to work on it.
I don't care much for installations above the A/C unit, but should I make someone change it when I run into it? If it can be easily reached I haven't
Russ
[ December 15, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: russ ]
440.14. Location. Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment. The disconnecting means shall be permitted to be installed on or within the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment.
If on or within is readily accessible, then with the average house A/C, I can't see why above it wouldn't be.
As far as 110.26 is concerned, it seems it would be ok to install a disconnect on top of a walk in cooler for a compressor, so why not above the A/C unit. I still think you can shut the power off to it if you have to work on it.
I don't care much for installations above the A/C unit, but should I make someone change it when I run into it? If it can be easily reached I haven't
Russ
[ December 15, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: russ ]
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
Hi Russ,
So you are saying when you happen upon an installation like this, you approve it?
[ December 15, 2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: websparky ]
Hi Russ,
So you are saying when you happen upon an installation like this, you approve it?
[ December 15, 2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: websparky ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
I still fall back on 110.26(A)
What part of a simple 30 or 60 amp disconnect would anyone try to work on when this thing is hot! There is not enough room to even try to take a conductor off a terminal in any kind of safe manner. I just don't think these little disconnects were ever meant to be worked on while energized. And even most of them have a warning to turn off power before opening. So if these are not meant to be worked on while hot then they do not meet the requirements of 110.26(A): and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized
Here is another example a receptacle is allowed to be a disconnect. why would it not fall under this article? Because if it ever goes bad we should turn of the breaker to change it. What kind of work space is under a kitchen sink for the disposal? how about the disconnect switch for a furnace? A well pump in a crawl space?
[ December 16, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
I still fall back on 110.26(A)
What part of a simple 30 or 60 amp disconnect would anyone try to work on when this thing is hot! There is not enough room to even try to take a conductor off a terminal in any kind of safe manner. I just don't think these little disconnects were ever meant to be worked on while energized. And even most of them have a warning to turn off power before opening. So if these are not meant to be worked on while hot then they do not meet the requirements of 110.26(A): and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized
Here is another example a receptacle is allowed to be a disconnect. why would it not fall under this article? Because if it ever goes bad we should turn of the breaker to change it. What kind of work space is under a kitchen sink for the disposal? how about the disconnect switch for a furnace? A well pump in a crawl space?
[ December 16, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: 220 HVAC disconnect box clearance
I guess I should Have said which disconnects I'm thinking of I know there are some disconnects that would fall under 110.26 but the ones I'm referring to are the Milbank pullouts or any pullout for that matter as you don't have to have any exposed electrical terminals to test for voltage. and they are not design to be worked on when energized. they would be no less than using a wiggy in a receptacle as after you removed the pullout the terminals for the pullout are still insulated just like a receptacle. The Milbank brand don't even have a inner cover to remove as the setscrews that tighten down on the wires are recessed in plastic again not exposed.
The reasons I think these types of disconnects don't fall under 110.26 is:
1. They are not design to be repaired or replaced while energized.
2. You can check for voltage without any exposed terminals or electrical parts.
3. they still disconnect the power from the A/C unit.
But there are many disconnects that would require 110.26 space those SD ones with the No-Blow two-pole breaker, any disconnects that would have exposed live parts when only testing for voltage, fussed disconnects other that Edison screw in base. Which would also meet the NEC definition of no exposed parts.
[ December 16, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
I guess I should Have said which disconnects I'm thinking of I know there are some disconnects that would fall under 110.26 but the ones I'm referring to are the Milbank pullouts or any pullout for that matter as you don't have to have any exposed electrical terminals to test for voltage. and they are not design to be worked on when energized. they would be no less than using a wiggy in a receptacle as after you removed the pullout the terminals for the pullout are still insulated just like a receptacle. The Milbank brand don't even have a inner cover to remove as the setscrews that tighten down on the wires are recessed in plastic again not exposed.
The reasons I think these types of disconnects don't fall under 110.26 is:
1. They are not design to be repaired or replaced while energized.
2. You can check for voltage without any exposed terminals or electrical parts.
3. they still disconnect the power from the A/C unit.
But there are many disconnects that would require 110.26 space those SD ones with the No-Blow two-pole breaker, any disconnects that would have exposed live parts when only testing for voltage, fussed disconnects other that Edison screw in base. Which would also meet the NEC definition of no exposed parts.
[ December 16, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
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