230.71(A), 90.4, and a MLO panel

[dnem]

David, how does a shower fixture apply to 230.71(A), 90.4, and a MLO panel?

As far as the mini's, that wouldn't change anything either.

Now, are these instructions part of the Listing and Labeling of the equipment or just the manufacturers CYA?


Roger

I guess I didn't understand what you were asking for.

You're apparently looking for something in the panel labeling that would apply to the type of panel being discussed on this thread and restrict that panels usage. . If that's what you're looking for, how about a label that says, ?Suitable for use as service equipment when not more than six main disconnecting means are provided?. . If this fits as an example of what you were asking for, then following that instruction would be required by 110.3(B). . You would apply the information according to the instructions in the UL Panelboard Listing Guide which says under item #20:

20. A panelboard with the neutral insulated from the enclosure may be marked ?Suitable for use as service equipment when not more than six main disconnecting means are provided? when the following conditions are met:
A. There must be at least one combination of switching units that can be mounted to occupy all available space for switching units; and, whether by using handle ties or similar devices, not more than six main disconnects will result (including factory-installed disconnects).
B. With this combination of switching units, no more than six overcurrent-protective devices will be connected to each ungrounded service conductor.
Note that a panelboard marked ?Suitable for use as service equipment when not more than six main disconnecting means are provided? may permit some combinations of switching units varying in ampere ratings and physical size that would exceed the six disconnect rule on a completely filled panelboard.

 

[jwelectric]

Would someone take a moment and explain what the note at the end of Line 20 B. means?
Just what is being said by this note?

Note that a panelboard marked ?Suitable for use as service equipment when not more than six main disconnecting means are provided?

may permit some combinations of switching units varying in ampere ratings and physical size

that would exceed the six disconnect rule on a completely filled panelboard.
__________________

 

[ARBY]

Rodger,

The marking "Suitable For Use As Service Equipment" is part of the listing mark. The guide information from the UL White Book describes limitations relative to the products covered. From the White Book: "If the acceptability of such a panelboard for use as service equipment depends upon the conditions of installation or use, the panelboard is marked to indicate those conditions".

Sounds like 110.3(B) to me. I think you are taking to narrow a view of the term installation instructions.

As far as the code not requiring panelboards to be listed, service equipment is required to marked, which is actually more restrictive than listing. Ultimately all electrical equipment has to be approved, and one method of establishing a basis for approval is by the equipment being listed.

 

[George Stolz]

Since everybody's digging up old threads, I'd thought I'd blow on this one.

Today, I landed 6 feeders in a 120/208 2000A service where the six feeder OCPDs served as the handles. I almost giggled, thinking back on this thread.

There was a potential for more than six handles to be installed someday.

 

[iwire]

Today, I landed 6 feeders in a 120/208 2000A service where the six feeder OCPDs served as the handles.

How did you determine the ampacity of this service?

 

[roger]

I forgot about this thread.

David and Ardby, read 110.3(B) closely. If the instructions included with the listing or labeling information that accompanies the item doesn't have pertinent information, a violation of 110.3(B) doesn't/can't exist period.

For example, if UL does not specifically require the instructions to include specifics as it does Here for Rope lights it doesn't exist.

Even though the listing category mentions it or even requires it, it doesn't mean squat as far as 110.3(B) if the information is not available (as user instructions) to the buyer?

Now, twist this however you want to, but answer this first, why does UL say what information will be included with rope lights and doesn't on this issue if they meant for it to be enforcible per 110.3(B)?

Don't miss the last paragraph of the answer.

When installing and using rope lights, always follow the markings on the unit and the Installation and Use Instructions provided with the Listed product, in accordance with [FONT=SSWEVD+AGaramondPro-Italic,Garamond Pro]NEC [/FONT]110.3(B)

Roger

 

[George Stolz]

How did you determine the ampacity of this service?

I had meant to answer this and forgot. I had looked on the tag on the outside of the disconnect.

Later, I counted the handles: 600, 400, 200, 200, 200, 200. By 230.80, it would be a 1800A service.

I'm not sure about the calculated load, I haven't looked.

Good catch, though, I suspect you knew I looked at the outside of the can and walked away.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

George,

Later, I counted the handles: 600, 400, 200, 200, 200, 200. By 230.80, it would be a 1800A service.

I don't think so. The breakers can total far more than the service. If the calculated load was 100 amps, you could feed this panel with #3 and be code compliant, but the conductors on the load side of the breakers would have to have an ampacity equal to or greater than the breaker rating.
Don

 

[George Stolz]

I was going to disagree, based on 230.90.

But 230.90(A), exception 3 seems to agree with your statement.

What would the service be "called", then? A 100A service?

Edit to add: Here's a follow-up: If my service conductors were on back-order, could I legally supply my service with #3 conductors for temporary power? Suppose I powered a handful of 20A receptacle circuits ad a lighting circuit or two.

 

[suemarkp]

How about you rate it at whatever the service entrance conductors are rated for.