240v sub panel fed 4 wire?

[tadavidson]

Are you thinking about a feeder to a remote (not attached) structure? I also say that ground rods are not a substitute for an equipment grounding conductor.

 

[tadavidson]

Mounted to a structure but serving pool equipment outside of building.

 

[Little Bill]

Up until the 2008 (I think that was the year) you could run a 3-wire feed to a separate building/structure as long as there were no metallic items (think water pipe, other conduit, etc.) in the path between buildings. Now we have to run a 4th (EGC) to avoid objectionable current on normally non-current carrying metallic items. Even then, a ground rod (or any grounding electrode) had to be installed.

 

[tadavidson]

Up until the 2008 (I think that was the year) you could run a 3-wire feed to a separate building/structure as long as there were no metallic items (think water pipe, other conduit, etc.) in the path between buildings. Now we have to run a 4th (EGC) to avoid objectionable current on normally non-current carrying metallic items. Even then, a ground rod (or any grounding electrode) had to be installed.

Yessir! I believe that to be the truth. I was looking to cite a code section that states just as you have said it.

 

[augie47]

Yessir except 250.32 state serving "building or structure" 2020 cycle.

You earlier post states the panel was in/on a shed... that's a building or structure ??

 

[ptonsparky]

It needs a four wire feeder.

Send your no thank you, and walk.

 

[tadavidson]

You earlier post states the panel was in/on a shed... that's a building or structure ??

On it (outside) but not serving it. Serving pool equipment located adjacent to building.

 

[wwhitney]

On it (outside) but not serving it. Serving pool equipment located adjacent to building.

A pool sounds like a structure to me.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Another C10]

I was always taught to use the ground reference of the feeder or branch circuits origin, reason being more than 1 grounding reference can create an unstable fault path.

 

[hbiss]

Pool equipment. The most important installation to get the grounding right for and you aren't walking away from this DIY fiasco? You touch it and somebody dies you're going to jail.

READ Art 680, specifically 680.6

680.6 Grounding.
Electrical equipment shall be grounded in
accordance with Parts V, VI, and VII of Article 250 and connected
by wiring methods of Chapter 3, except as modified by this
article. The following equipment shall be grounded:
(1) Through-wall lighting assemblies and underwater luminaires,
other than those low-voltage lighting products listed
for the application without a grounding conductor
(2) All electrical equipment located within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the
inside wall of the specified body of water
(3) All electrical equipment associated with the recirculating
system of the specified body of water
(4) Junction boxes
(5) Transformer and power supply enclosures
(6) Ground-fault circuit interrupters
(7) Panelboards that are not part of the service equipment
and that supply any electrical equipment associated with
the specified body of water

-Hal

 

[ramsy]

..Pool installer sets pum, switch leg, etc at panel area.

If shed contains pool chemicals then 680.25(A) Feeders, also applies.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Mounted to a structure but serving pool equipment outside of building.

Okay but is the new panel mounted on the same structure as the main panel? Or is this pool panel on a detached structure from the main structure? Sorry I am not clear on it.

 

[LarryFine]

I am looking for code section that states a sub panel requires a "4th" wire pulled for ground in lieu of driven rods. I find a section that says building or structure but not simply "any sub panel". I have also tried searching the archive of post. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Even a stand-alone pedestal or pole would be considered to be a structure in this situation.

Plus, yes, any sub-panel requires a separate EGC, regardless of one structure or two. The earth never qualifies.

The purpose of an intact EGC pathway has nothing to do with grounding to earth. It is so an accidental contact between a hot wire and a conductive surface will cause a fuse or breaker to open just like an accidental contact between a hot wire and a grounded conductor (or another source conductor) would.

For that to happen, there must be a low-impedance connection between the EGC system and the source grounded conductor. Again, the earth alone is nowhere near conductive to serve this function. You would likely never get a 15a breaker to trip if you tied it directly to a ground rod; you'd only energize the dirt.

 

[guschash]

What about 250(B) exception No.1

 

[Little Bill]

What about 250(B) exception No.1

205.?(B)
You left out the .xx
What is the Article you're citing?

 

[ptonsparky]

250(B) is ungrounded systems.

This is a grounded system

 

[ptonsparky]

205.?(B)
You left out the .xx
What is the Article you're citing?

I was hoping ..
.4(B)

You are correct though, missing details

 

[ptonsparky]

Personally I would not be looking for exceptions when it comes to new pools and the EG requirements.

 

[jap]

Personally I would not be looking for exceptions when it comes to new pools and the EG requirements.

Me either, and, to the OP ,, don't walk away,, instead,,insist you install it so it will be done correctly.

JAP>

 

[LarryFine]

What about 250(B) exception No.1

Which says?