314.16 box fill?

[Jpflex]

My NEC handbook seems to ne in error

The books calculation for 6 EGC, 2 being pigtailed are calculated at 1 volume allowance based on largest 12 AWG conductor at 2.25?

Unless 2 x equipment ground conductor jumpers follow different rules

1) 4X EGC = 2.25 (1 single volume allowance)

2) 2 x EGC (pig tail jumpets) 1/4 x 2 x 2.25

Add 1) + 2) 3.37 total EGC Fill but not 2.25 stated in book?

 

[wwhitney]

You appear to be using the 2023 NEC, even though CA is currently on the 2020 NEC? Perhaps you are preparing for the state-wide adoption of the 2023 NEC on January 1, 2026? [I assume Victorville is Victorville, CA.]

Anyway, 2023 NEC 314.16(B)(5) only requires counting "equipment grounding conductors enter(ing) a box". So no need to count the pigtail jumpers. This is also in accordance with the last sentence of 314.16(B)(1), which says "A conductor, no part of which leaves the box, shall not be counted."

[Although is appears implicit that 314.16(B)(1) doesn't cover EGCs, as 314.16(B)(5) does. That's some inexact wording, 314.16(B)(1) should explicitly exempt EGCs and refer the reader to 314.16(B)(5). Otherwise a plausible interpretation leads to double counting the EGCs, once under 314.16(B)(1) and once under (B)(5).]

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jpflex]

You appear to be using the 2023 NEC, even though CA is currently on the 2020 NEC? Perhaps you are preparing for the state-wide adoption of the 2023 NEC on January 1, 2026? [I assume Victorville is Victorville, CA.]

Anyway, 2023 NEC 314.16(B)(5) only requires counting "equipment grounding conductors enter(ing) a box". So no need to count the pigtail jumpers.

Cheers, Wayne

Ok i see that detail you mentioned. I do not know when 2023 code cycle will be tested in california but i do not want to finish the old cycle by the time im ready to test and the new cycle becomes mandated

 

[augie47]

Here is Mike's explanation of the '17 rule on EGC and changes after the 2017

 

[Jaybone812]

My NEC handbook seems to ne in error

The books calculation for 6 EGC, 2 being pigtailed are calculated at 1 volume allowance based on largest 12 AWG conductor at 2.25?

Unless 2 x equipment ground conductor jumpers follow different rules

1) 4X EGC = 2.25 (1 single volume allowance)

2) 2 x EGC (pig tail jumpets) 1/4 x 2 x 2.25

Add 1) + 2) 3.37 total EGC Fill but not 2.25 stated in book?

According to 314.16(b)(5) 2023 nec say you have 6 # 14 egc entering the box that equates to 1.5 #14 allowances or 3 cu in of fill . Up to 4 entering the box is one allowance each additional is 1/4

 

[Jaybone812]

My NEC handbook seems to ne in error

The books calculation for 6 EGC, 2 being pigtailed are calculated at 1 volume allowance based on largest 12 AWG conductor at 2.25?

Unless 2 x equipment ground conductor jumpers follow different rules

1) 4X EGC = 2.25 (1 single volume allowance)

2) 2 x EGC (pig tail jumpets) 1/4 x 2 x 2.25

Add 1) + 2) 3.37 total EGC Fill but not 2.25 stated in book?

Pig tails and bonding jumpers don’t count it’s only egcs that enter the box

 

[infinity]

My NEC handbook seems to ne in error

The books calculation for 6 EGC, 2 being pigtailed are calculated at 1 volume allowance based on largest 12 AWG conductor at 2.25?

What part of what is in your photo is mentioning this calculation? Is it Commentary Table 314.3? BTW your photo quality isn't helping us.

 

[Jpflex]

What part of what is in your photo is mentioning this calculation? Is it Commentary Table 314.3? BTW your photo quality isn't helping us.

What part of what is in your photo is mentioning this calculation? Is it Commentary Table 314.3? BTW your photo quality isn't helping us.

This forum does not accept medium to large sized pictures. Im using the smallest zoomed out settings just to upload a photo

 

[Jpflex]

Pig tails and bonding jumpers don’t count it’s only egcs that enter the box

a jumper does enter a box just as well, however it may or may not leave the box, therefore if it does not leace the box its safe not to count the jumper EGC

 

[infinity]

This forum does not accept medium to large sized pictures. Im using the smallest zoomed out settings just to upload a photo

The easiest way to reduce the file size is to take larger photo and crop it down. Of course this method will have marginal results if your original photo isn't great.

Can you swing back and answer the other questions in post #7?

 

[acrwc10]

Aside from answering a test question I have found the box fill is a lot more wire than I will put in a box. The devices have gotten much larger and you cannot fit them into a box at max fill.

 

[Jaybone812]

a jumper does enter a box just as well, however it may or may not leave the box, therefore if it does not leace the box its safe not to count the jumper EGC

In the eyes on 314.16(b)(5) egc conductor fill is based on Egc’s that enter the box . If you bond a metal box using one of those egcs that entered the box then it would be counted towards your conductor fill, but if you simply wrap a ground tail around the ground screw to bond the box ahd tie it into the rest of the equipment grounds then it does not count towards fill,

 

[Jpflex]

What part of what is in your photo is mentioning this calculation? Is it Commentary Table 314.3? BTW your photo quality isn't helping us.

Its actually exhibitv314.3 in the 2023 NEC handbook

 

[infinity]

Its actually exhibitv314.3 in the 2023 NEC handbook

So the Commentary Table 314.3 in your photo is applicable to your question?

 

[Jpflex]

So the Commentary Table 314.3 in your photo is applicable to your question?

It was mostly the picture exhibit 314.3 which shows pigtailed EGC outside or "exiting" the box while connecting with other EGC at the red wire nut

 

[wwhitney]

It was mostly the picture exhibit 314.3 which shows pigtailed EGC outside or "exiting" the box while connecting with other EGC at the red wire nut

The picture just shows all the devices and connections outside the box for illustration. Obviously during use the pigtails will be entirely within the box, and the devices will be mounted to the box. It just wouldn't be useful to illustrate it that way, because you wouldn't be able to see any of the connections.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

The books calculation for 6 EGC, 2 being pigtailed are calculated at 1 volume allowance based on largest 12 AWG conductor at 2.25?

Unless 2 x equipment ground conductor jumpers follow different rules

1) 4X EGC = 2.25 (1 single volume allowance)

2) 2 x EGC (pig tail jumpets) 1/4 x 2 x 2.25

You can see why we're confused. In the OP you mentioned 6 EGC's.

 

[Jpflex]

Pig tails and bonding jumpers don’t count it’s only egcs that enter the box

Indeed, but when looking at the exhibit picture initially all EGC are shown exiting or outside the box.

I understand all EGC will be folded and set inside the box so i have no objection to EGC pigtails being counted

Thanks

 

[infinity]

I understand all EGC will be folded and set inside the box so i have no objection to EGC pigtails being counted

Thanks

I think that you meant NOT counted.

 

[Jpflex]

I think that you meant NOT counted.

Yea lol