Believe me. I get it! But technically the inspector is correct. This section does not talk about specific equipment installed in these outlet boxes, it's talking about the outlet boxes themselves. If they installed in a ceiling and an inspector thinks a ceiling fan would be able to operate within that space, the Code is saying that a listed fan-rated box shall be installed. Very poorly written.
The rest of #2 states "capable of supporting a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan without removing the box. So a fan-rated box would be required as we cannot hang ceiling fans on boxes that are not listed for that purpose. I think they are referencing the listed fan boxes that do not use 10-32 screws to support the fan but use long wood screws into the structure. Those type of boxes are still listed for ceiling fans.
Just call the somkies a NPLFA fire alarm circuit. You'd need all the smokies on a dedicated circuit but hey no AFCI required.
I disagree with that interpretation. Should every ceiling box be a fan box?
You don't even need to do it for a centrally-located box you just need a 2X4 above the box to provide structural support.
Larry, that would be the common sense approach. Remember Charlie's Rule. Go back and read it like you were reading it for the very first time. You will see that "It says what it says"
Unfortunately, that is not what it says.
AFCI would still be required as smoke detectors are "outlets" This section does not refer to what we are installing to the boxes, this section is referring TO the boxes.
Can you please enlighten me what I missed ?
I just looked up Florida and your on the 2020
If the box is not the sole support it does not need to be a fan box.
While I was kinda joking on that one
If I installed a single-gang box near the peak of a vaulted ceiling and installed a smoke detector in that box, the box itself should not be used for the support of a ceiling fan. But is the box "in a location acceptable for the installation of a ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan?" I used the EXACT verbiage from the 2020 NEC. It has nothing to do with the box itself or what is installed in it. It has EVERYTHING to do with where the box is installed. This section gives the AHJ complete authority to determine where in a ceiling that a fan could be installed.
A standard 3" or 4" pancake box using 8-32 screws or a 4/0 octagon box that uses 8-32 screws does not comply with the requirements of 314.27 (which is the part of the section that you did not put in bold letters. They are referring to listed fan-rated boxes that do not use 10-32 screws but use long wood screw that go through the box. When using these boxes, the fan is supported by the structure and not the box. But the box complies with 314.27 by being marked with weight requirements and are suitable for the installation of fans not weighing more than 70 lbs.
These are awesome Dennis! I loved installing these. But the section does say habitable rooms of dwelling occupancies. There are listed metal fan-rated boxes manufactured today that do not use 10-32 screws. Long wood screw go through the listed box into the structure. these boxes do not provide the sole support of the ceiling fan.
IF you had that type of fire alarm system you are correct. 210.12 says ALL 120-volt single-phase 15 and 20 amp branch circuits supplying outlets or devices...... The fire alarm systems that i think you are talking about are not 120-volt
The word "listed" appears in 314.27(C)(1), but not in 314.27(C)(2). So if you go the 314.27(C)(2) route, you do not need a specially listed box.
Nice catch Wayne. I looked in my 2023 and they added to (C)(2) "without removing the box." So until 2023 Code goes into effect, standard pancake boxes and 4/0 boxes could be installed and should not have to be listed for fans. Thanks! I'm taking this to my chief electrical inspector. Wayne, would this mean that I wouldn't have to use listed fan boxes even if a fan would be installed? Brings up an interesting point here. In the center of a bedroom, I could use a 4/0 box secured to a 2x4 and install a cheap fixture to get a final. Then come back and install a fan in it's place? I'm meeting the requirements of (C)(2)
