Re: 6 disconnect rule violation?
Don't have a stroke on my account. YOU are the one putting 12 single pole breakers in and violating the code.
By this very statement, you have admitted that it is the number of handles that either makes or breaks the code, not the number of spaces available.
(A) If you have never been an inspector, don't knock it when 90.4 comes into play.
I have full respect for the difficulties inspectors face. I fail to understand why an informed inspector with so much on his plate as it stands, would bother adding rules (such as your unfounded rule of thumb) to the real, written rules of such an oppressively large document.
(B) For someone who claims to be a code guru, SHOW me where you can't install that scenario.
Sir, I have never claimed to be a guru, or to have all the answers. I call it as I see it. If I don't know something, I ask. If I feel I have a bead on something, I assert my opinion. If I feel strongly enough about an issue, I assert my opinion as a fact. I make every attempt to back up items I consider "facts" with solid code references that confirm my statements.
I credit this forum with giving me some understanding of the NEC, which has in turn given me the confidence to speak my mind on issues such as these. If a green 3-month apprentice walks in here with the right answer to a question, or a valid viewpoint on a topic, then that opinion is given the same amount of space as an individual who has been in the industry for 60 years.
It is kind of like that receptacle above a drop ceiling. Nothing says it can't be there, you just can't leave nothing plugged into it.
Of course you can use it, otherwise it's existence would be pointless. See the back pages of ECM magazine, Mike Holt's piece, for a nice discussion of when this transpires. (I'm sure you've seen it, and was fresh in mind, which is why you came up with this example out of thin air. It's relevance to our little spat is questionable.)
(C) This rule of thumb is code compliant when installed as is. It would be ridiculous to limit an enclosure to 6 spaces on a 3 phase system just because he has 3 single pole breakers in it.
Who's to say the panel isn't large to allow for expansion at some future time? You have no ground to stand on, except for 90.4, which IMO, is the battle cry of the defeated.
It is when people like you misuse the situation, not the equipment, that creates a violation.
Come again? People like me?
I seem to recall saying something along the lines that an installation such as this is
goofy, but code-compliant.
(D) I have been in this business a long time, a lifetime as a matter of fact.
Forgive my lack of intimidation at your tenure.
I have been in this business for 3 years, 5 months and 4 days. I am 25 years old. I have not seen everything, done everything, or even been doing this longer than I spent flipping burgers. And you know what, it doesn't matter because I don't have to know everything to find this:
225.33(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switch-board. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.
I don't need to be in this business another 50 years to know that this does not make any mention of available spaces in the enclosure. I can read and comprehend this information without the aid of a lifetime's work. I don't need to invent rules of thumb, or limericks, or catchy slogans to find and use
the requirements of this installation.
We all, including myself, sometimes need to earth our pride use some common sense and quit trying to glorify ourselves as a source of ALL answers.
When I have all the answers, I'll be at room temperature.
What I do have is the text to back up my opinion.
(E) Be careful shooting that gun, the foot you shoot may be your own!
Wise words, Hopalong.
Have a good day now.
