AFCI Question

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sparky_magoo

sparky_magoo

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I have '99 & 05 code books. California has adopted the '02 code. Can someone please tell me if the requirement for all outlets in bedrooms, to be AFCI protected, first appeared in the '02 or '05 code cycle.

Under the '02 code, am I required to only put receptacle outlets on AFCI breakers. This has been a topic of debate at our shop. I thought '02 required all outlets to be AFCI protected, am I wrong?
 
sparky_magoo said:
I have '99 & 05 code books. California has adopted the '02 code. Can someone please tell me if the requirement for all outlets in bedrooms, to be AFCI protected, first appeared in the '02 or '05 code cycle.

Under the '02 code, am I required to only put receptacle outlets on AFCI breakers. This has been a topic of debate at our shop. I thought '02 required all outlets to be AFCI protected, am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Here's the '99 version:
210-12. Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection
(a) Definition. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.
(b) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter(s). This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2002.
Click to expand...
Here's the '02 version:
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
Click to expand...
Here's the '05 version:
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed
to provide protection of the branch circuit. Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
FPN: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters.

Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the branch circuit in compliance with (a) and (b):
(a) The arc-fault circuit interrupter installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.
(b) The circuit conductors between the branch circuit overcurrent device and the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a metal raceway or a cable with a metallic sheath.
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It's like a monster that keeps growing.
 
Thanks for the info. I thought I was correct in insisting we use AFCI's on all bedroom outlets. Work is slow. Some one will be laid off. I don't want to be one of them. Our shop will not put lighting/ smokie outlets on AFCI ckt.s

I blame the problem on local building inspectors. Personally, I think AFCI breakers are useless.
 
NJ hasn't accepted 210.12, but I know enough (from the guys here) that -unless a local amendment superceeds 210.12 - NOT putting lighting/ smokie outlets on AFCI ckt.s IS a violation....and ultimately opens the shop to unneccessary liability issues.

Good luck over there and I hope you dodge that bullet.
 
The part I don't care for in the 02 code at 210.12 (B) is where it says ......"listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit."
Whereas in the 05 NEC there are exceptions which will allow a receptacle-style afci within 6 feet of the panelboard. Quite a difference in cost when one does a 300 home development.
 
sparky_magoo said:
Thanks for the info. I thought I was correct in insisting we use AFCI's on all bedroom outlets. Work is slow. Some one will be laid off. I don't want to be one of them. Our shop will not put lighting/ smokie outlets on AFCI ckt.s

I blame the problem on local building inspectors. Personally, I think AFCI breakers are useless.
Click to expand...

If you are under the 2002...then your shop is not doing them as the 2002 intended. They need to be on all branch circuits within the bedroom...that includes the lighting and smokes within that bedroom.

I have witnessed AFCI's work, I have seen tests and examples and I personally think they are the next level in safety...but thats only my opinion.

Just for kicks......I see the 99, 02 and 05 posted.....and the comment on how the monster is growing so I will post the lastest GROWTH...lol

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI).
An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide
protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing
characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to deenergize
the circuit when an arc fault is detected. [ROP
2–119]
(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits installed in dwelling units shall
be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination
type installed to provide protection of the branch
circuit. [ROP 2–105, 2–142, 2–111]

FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit
interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault
Circuit Interrupters.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72?-2007, National
Fire Alarm Code? for information related to secondary
power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in
dwelling units. [ROP 2–118a]
FPN No. 3: See 760.41 and 760.121 for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems. [ROP 2–143]

Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter
shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the
branch circuit where the arc-fault circuit interrupter is installed
within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent
device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.
[ROP 2–147, 2–137]
Click to expand...
 
I have never seen an AFCI receptacle. I have only been in this rural area for about three years. I still can't get used to the lax inspections around here. When we moved here, construction was booming. Now, it is really slow. Inspectors don't catch "squat" around here.

If any of you are interested, I will start a thread on some of the unbelievably stupid things I have been called on. Most of you probably wouldn't buy it!
 
Fred
I am surprised that some of the contractors up by you are not installing the AFCI CBs. Even though they are not required for 1 or 2 family homes 400 amp and smaller, there are some contractors installing them here in Westchester.
 
sparky_magoo said:
I blame the problem on local building inspectors. Personally, I think AFCI breakers are useless.
Click to expand...

???

It's not the local inspectors fault that the NEC is requiring AFCIs.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Fred
I am surprised that some of the contractors up by you are not installing the AFCI CBs. Even though they are not required for 1 or 2 family homes 400 amp and smaller, there are some contractors installing them here in Westchester.
Click to expand...

Hi Pierre:There are lots of installers up this way using the AFCI breakers. Most of the tradesmen in this area keep up with the most current code regardless of what edition of the NEC is actually in effect. Thanks should go to the various electrical supply houses for stocking the latest technological "breakthroughs". Although, admittedly, one wonders about the expedience in marketing some of the "advances."
 
Pierre,
There are a good number of us that think AFCIs are nothing more than a profit center for the manufacturers. They have distorted the facts from day one to the get these things into the code. There has never been a cost benefit study made on this device and there still is not an AFCI on the marker that has the functionality that they claimed AFCIs had in the original proposals some 13 years ago. The combination type device that is required to be used starting 1/1/08 is said to have that functionality, but there are only two of the major manufactuters that even have a listing for this device and only one that claims to have it on the market (but no one has actually seen one in a supply house). Given the history of misinformation from the manufacturers I now find it hard to believe anything thing that they have to say about any electrical product.
Don
 
Hi Don: We had a farm-implement salesman up here that went to work for the AFCI people down in the city.....He was such a good marketer he sold a farmer two milking machines and the farmer only had one cow. And the salesman took that for a down payment.
 
Don,

Eaton makes a Classified version of the AFCI that will work in other brands panels like ITE, Bryant, Crouse Hinds and so on. They indeed today on these devices offer both Par. and Ser. protection.

I believe what we will see is the price coming down much like it has for GFCI's....now lets not debate their usefulness....but their is good enough documentation and studies that show the AFCI works......and many have put alot of work into it's development.

Eaton for example has a man named Joe Engle who has nearly 40 years in this business and many patents to his name.....we explains the function of the AFCI very well.....

Sure it is additional sales and marketing aspects.....it is america and plenty of electricians quote things that may not be needed sometimes....it's just part of business and the manufactures have a right to business.

I just don't buy into the fact the manufactures have cornered the NEC Code Panels in order to blindly promote a useless product.....if it saves one life it is worth the effort.

Check out www.arcfault.org for more info.......but I don't believe they are a waste at all......but again whats my opinion worth...nothing except to me and my clients.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liXlvWfLUZ4
 
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Paul,
Eaton makes a Classified version of the AFCI that will work in other brands panels like ITE, Bryant, Crouse Hinds and so on. They indeed today on these devices offer both Par. and Ser. protection.
Click to expand...
Eaton does not have a listing for a combination type AFCI that will be required starting 1/1/08. Look up the UL Guide for AWAH. The only 2 major manufacturers that have listings for the combination type AFCI are SquareD and Siemens.
I just don't buy into the fact the manufactures have cornered the NEC Code Panels in order to blindly promote a useless product.....if it saves one life it is worth the effort.
Click to expand...
Then why is there not yet an AFCI device on the market now that has the functionality that Eaton said their device had when they made the original proposal for the 1996 code? As far as life safety there is always a line. We could eliminate most of the traffic deaths if we all drove vechicles constructed like D9 Cats, but it would not be functional or cost effective. I know that you will say that you can't put a cost on a life, but big companies do it every day in the design of products. You can always make a product safer, but at some point the cost is too great. If you work out all of the numbers for the AFCIs you will find that in the first year of full compliance with the bedroom AFCI rule, you could expect to prevent 15 fires. Yes this number goes up with each passing year, but the big problem is that about 85% of the dwelling unit electrical fires occur in units that are over 20 years old. The AFCI is no a fail safe device and I do not have any expectation of the fancy electronics in the AFCI still being functional after 20 years. Yes I know that the instructions require the homeowner to do a monthy test, but if you really expect that will happen, I have some nice ocean front propery in Kansas that I can sell you.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I have some nice ocean front propery in Kansas that I can sell you.
Don
Click to expand...

lol...how much are ya sellin it for fella...;)

Interesting Article - http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/03_e/magazine_03e_afciforum.htm

Another good article - http://www.ecmag.com/index.cfm?fa=article&articleID=3667

The FIRE-GUARD™ Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) is a residential circuit breaker with an integrated processor which recognizes the unique current and/or voltage signatures associated with arcing faults, and acts to interrupt the circuit to reduce the likelihood of an electrical fire. With the Cutler-Hammer FIRE-GUARD AFCI, protection from arcing faults is combined with conventional thermal and magnetic overloads as found in standard residential circuit breakers protecting wiring from excessive heat or damage due to overloading or short circuits. FIRE-GUARD AFCI can also be equipped with 5 mA ground fault protection to protect from personal shock hazards. Now, there is a residential circuit breaker that provides protection from arcing faults, conductor damage due to thermal overloads and short circuits, as well as 5 mA ground fault protection in one integrated design.

I know..I know....they dont come RIGHT out and say stuff....you know manufacturers
 
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Paul,
The CH Fire-Guard AFCI is a "branch ciruit and feeder" type AFCI, it is not a "combination" type as required by the 2005 code with an effective date of 1/1/08.
I have read all of the info that I have been able to find on these devices. One thing that I have found that is that almost all of it originates from the manufacturers...not exactly an unbiased source. They just have not been straight with the information that they provide to the public and the CMP. One manufacture even stated that the public has no need to know the information. I keep going back to all of their broken promises starting with the original proposal where Eaton said that they had a device that has all of the functionality of the combination type AFCI. That was in a proposal for the 1996 code. There is not yet a device with that functionality on the market.
Don
 
Moderator Don: Your suspicions per the afci industry are certainly warranted. Its scary to think of how pandemic this condition might be with regard to many of the "life-safety" products available.
 
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