zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
If these worked, they would say Eaton, GE, and/or Siemens on the box.
"Ampilizer"
- Thread starter Npstewart
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SAC
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
Thanks - this is the type of basic analysis that shows just how bogus these claims can be. That PFC is real isn't at issue, it is how it can save a homeowner any real $$$. Let's see a similar analysis from the opposite side that shows how the $$$ is saved - any takers?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Some of the divisions of one of those companies spent untold 100s of thousands of dollars on similar equipment for their plants only to find out there was no pay back. These facilities all had power factor correction at the service equipment, so there was no issue with utility penalties for poor power factor. One of the devices was a power optimizer that said:
Good sales people bypassed the technical experts of the company and got the plant managers to buy in to this stuff.
Good find.
I don't think anyone here has any doubt that what's being sold is a grey box with capacitors. The video clip shows it to be so.
And I note that there has been, as yet, no response to my post #70.
That's not to say that I think power factor correction is entirely without merit. But trying to flog it as a magical box to the unsuspecting domestic consumer to save energy does not sit well with me.
It's wrong and unethical.
SAC
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
This looks like it may be the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=5440442.PN.&OS=PN/5440442&RS=PN/5440442
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They website says they have a patent "that allows to determine in just a few minutes the type of energy controller that you need to save energy day in and day out"
The patent the above link goes to also seems to be for a "tester". There doesn't seem to be a patent on the grey box. More deception.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
What they determine, in a matter of minutes, is which switches internal to their device to operate, taking certain capacitors in or out of the circuit, in order to obtain the "optimum" capacitance (i.e., to get the net power factor close to 1.0). That is the essence of the patent: the wiring layout that includes the capacitors and the switches.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Sad thing is there are people who will spend $15 per month to save $15 or less thinking that they are doing the right thing.
There are no active components in the "device". It's simply a capacitor. And that's at the heart of the matter.
Domestic supplies have many non-linear loads connected to them. I^2R mentions some of them in post #53.
Such non-linear loads take non-linear current from the supply and the result is that the voltage gets distorted and that's, in part, how the harmonic currents arise in the device. Being capacitive, it has an impedance that is inversely proportional to frequency - it sucks in harmonic currents. The other effect is that it, along with the motor to which it is connected, form a parallel resonant circuit which is how I think the higher order frequencies are generated. To an extent, I^2R is correct, in the capacitors are not the origin of the problem and would not be if you had a perfectly clean sinusoidal supply and no non-linear loads. But, with the increasing proliferation of electronic gizmos, who does?
I took the measurements at home. Home is in a residential area that is served by an 11kV/400V Dyn transformer. At a guess, it's about 1500kVA. It's a common arrangement for residential in UK. The domestic voltage is 230V phase to neutral. We happen to live close to it so we should have a pretty stiff supply that we shouldn't be able to distort. However there are two (or more) issues to consider. The first is the aggregate non-linear load from all the houses served by this transformer. The second is at the 11kV level. There are many transformers doing a similar application fed from that supply voltage. All with a similar load profile. In short, the 11kV has distortion on it.
I met this some years ago when we installed some drives in a pumping station. The station was fed from a dedicated 11kV/400V transformer. Part of our contract was to provide a harmonic analysis after installation to demonstrate that the harmonic voltage distortion at the point of common coupling, 11kV in this case, was within the limits set by the Electricity Association - a commonly used standard for the industry.
I made the measurements and was somewhat surprised by the results. The limits were exceeded - with or without the drives running. It was in a residential area and I concluded then that aggregate loading from electronic devices was maybe a bigger problem than generally recognised.
Open Neutral
Senior Member
- Location
- Inside the Beltway
- Occupation
- Engineer
I do not need an Ampilizer: Jraef sold me an E-Stop button for only $299.00 and I am positive that when I hit it, I will save electricity.
That dirty rat charged me $399.00; how come you got a discount????
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Must be supply and demand, AKA corporate greed.
Now that there is a demand, the manufacturers can jack the pricing.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Must be supply and demand, AKA corporate greed.
Now that there is a demand, the manufacturers can jack the pricing.
Yup, I ordered early while the gettin" was good.
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